Sheesh, you really went through that website, it was not easy to find. I was only looking at the tiers of government, didn't realise how much else was there.

OMG TP, I thought that was just me.

Girls!, Girls!

Speak for yourself TP. At my age I need to get in all the naughtiness I can.

I know too many fools so I think I'll stick with the great minds.

Hi Miranda,

We would love to see any update on what you managed to do to hide your fence. Hope you are still around on Houzz!

Luke

Yay, Miranda, that is a great start. Is it necessary to paint/stain the wall?? Leaving the timber to age naturally can be just as nice a look. You will be able to add steps down in the future too to access other areas of the garden.

Is the grass growing ok on the flat area? Maybe focus on getting it really established and you may only need small areas of paving for seating done leaving a softer play area or even do random areas of paving and mix in ground covers for some colour and interest to save on cost. It would be much cooler in summer too as all that area paved would be a lot of reflected heat in the house.

With respect to your newly planted trees, it does make life easier if you have a mower strip around any garden area. You can buy concrete collars that you would be able to slip over the tree now and set in the soil so it forms both an edging and a mower strip.

There are many new forms of garden edgings coming on the market now, just be careful, some are metal and do have a sharpish edge which could cause injury to a child if they fell on it. Probably check out Bunnings for all the latest ideas, but you may find more here

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=photos+of+lawn+edgings&espv=2&biw=1242&bih=585&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwirzM6zzbrNAhUHKJQKHV4xD18QsAQIGg

I guess it's just personal taste, but I'm not really a fan of the grey aged look sleepers get. I think I'd rather have a richer colour, though I'm undecided on what shade I want to do. The photo is deceptive as the greenery atop the retaining wall is just weeds, no grass at all. However I do really like the idea of having a more natural ground cover than just paving, but maybe something that wouldn't require mowing in summer. Also something that will survive frost/snow, but also hold up in full sunlight in summer of course.

But that would just be for the human side, we need to pave the dog's side so they won't be able to track so much dirt and mud into the house! I'm not so worried about heat coming into the house from that side, it's much cooler up that end of the house. It's the big living space with the sliding door and two big windows that gets uncomfortably warm in summer - and you've made me realise that paving would make that a lot worse.

I did see the metal edging when I had a look in Bunnings, but I had the same thought as you that it may not be the safest for an adventurous toddler (she didn't stay a baby for long at all!) Concrete collars sound like a better bet. I might check out some local landscape suppliers and see what they have. I recently got stung by Bunnings, paying $11 for star pickets that cost $6.50 at the local supplier. Shop local!

Just a suggestion Miranda - thinking of saving you time and money when you are in short supply on both. I used a stain on my side fence that allowed the natural timber grain to show through and it was a in blue/green/grey colour, sort of like a gum tree colour. No idea what it was called now, but it always looked great. Sort of took on the surrounding bush and it set the plants off beautifully. A deep green looks good too as it tends to blend better with the landscape than any browns.

Your wall is so long, I'd be hesitant to paint it too distinctive a colour that would stand out and the added problem is that stains gradually fade away and the paints chip and can fade also so it is always going to be constant maintenance. Have you thought of what you might put in front of the wall - if for example you were thinking of a garden then a lot of the wall wouldn't be seen at all.

As far as the heat goes, I think the first priority would be providing shade in that area to even make it inviting and certainly to allow your daughter to play out there. Some shade cloth over your door area at least would help a lot with the heat, it is amazing how much heat they do cut. There are many ground covers to choose from, it is just finding one that would stand up to wear and tear, especially depending on how much the dog might trample it. What would you think about artificial turf? Even for the dog's area, it would be softer. Unfortunately, I've had no experience with it to know the pros and cons. They have come a long way with it, and it is possible to DIY also, main work is in the preparation and suppliers will give you full DIY instructions. Decking would be another option, there is a new one out now that is an artificial timber and supposed to be good but from what I've seen it is very pricey - but then, isn't everything these days.

For the future though, how would you feel about some deciduous trees planted on the lower level but near to the wall allowing for growth room. Many years ago I planted a magnolia tree in my courtyard that faces west so you can imagine it is a no-go zone in summer. Now the tree has grown though, the canopy spreads over much of the courtyard so I can put tables and chairs under it, and it always feels 10 degrees cooler sitting out there. Strung some fairy lights though it a few years ago, making it even lovelier to sit under on a hot summer night. It is a deciduous magnolia too, so we then have the advantage of the sun in winter to warm the area. They loose their leaves quite quickly but an outdoor blower/vac takes care of them and they break down quickly making great mulch for the garden. Unfortunately, the possums enjoy it too and rarely leave me any flowers.

You definitely do have to be alert with Bunnings' prices - similar to their supermarket, prices are bumped up in one area to offset specials in another.

Doesn't time fly with bubs. I had a new grandbub just before Christmas, which only seems like last month, and already he is sitting and desperately trying to crawl. He is not even looking like a baby anymore.

Oldrool: If you want to get naughty, give me a call.

Miranda: They have developed a ground cover Camellia named Marge Milller that would be really nice cascading over your new wall. Hope it is available over there.

As for the metal edging being a hazard to children, it should be installed so the top of it is down at the top of the sod roots, not sticking up where you can see it. The purpose is to have a clean separation between sod and plant bed, not a visible line of metal.

analyze first, then plan

Joe Cascio

Joe - was that a typo or deliberate! I am an old Roo, athough it is a nice thought that someone might still drool. You will be banned for being a troll. :))

Co-incidentally, I do have a Marge Miller camellia, specifically hoping it will cascade over a rock wall, but not too sure if it will, it seems to be growing out a little stiff rather than cascading. It is presently flowering and looks very pretty though and is not requiring any TLC.

Sorry, my attempt at a little humor, as always. Although, as an 81-year old, I would not call you old, but perhaps old for a literate kangaroo.

Marge Miller sounds like a perfect addition to your cooler days to spend on the terrace.

Enjoy!

Thanks Miranda - it has been an absolute boon as an additional entertainment area in our home, especially now most of the grands are in their teens - teenagers take up a LOT of room and make even more noise. When our Joeys were little, we had a whole street full of little girls playing "Barbie" there all weekend. It was great always knowing where my lot were and what they were doing. This is where you will be so fortunate with the size of your block, you will be able to create lots of rooms for different activities and cater for all age groups. In a couple of years, your little one will love an outdoor cubby house to play in and cubbies also make a good storage space to get toys out of the house. Always look at how things can do double duty. Don't forget to create a mystical fairy garden nearby for her to really grow her imagination with space for her to garden and grow her own plants. You will be amazed at how much easier it is to get kids to eat veggies when they grow them themselves. She will also love a gym set and when she gets older a trampoline and you will be able to create areas specifically for these things.

Get family on board helping with the expense too, we have done this quite a bit with our Joeys, eg - we gave our US grands a trampoline last Christmas that is also their birthday presents for this year. Kids love it and accept it when they really want something and know they are expensive, mum and dad love less clutter in the house (1 present instead of 6) and we love just having to think up and organise only one present a year.

While I can see where your back area is a bit like living in a goldfish bowl at the moment, don't do anything too permanent screening the deck, strategic plantings as you develop the garden will give you the necessary privacy, but you will want to be able to see as much of your garden as possible when you have children playing outdoors.

I have a lovely cascading plant that is very easy to grow and just as easy to keep trimmed to where I want it to stay. It will get some height as well as spreading and cascading. Unfortunately, I've long forgotten the name of it but it has variegated green and white leaves and the end leaves on each branch are pink. It also has a tiny white flower. Can't find it on the net as yet but it is very hardy and is happy in full sun. Maybe Joe might know of it.

ps - sorry something happened with this site and I can no longer post photos, which is an absolute pain.

Hi @olldroo, I am looking into this problem for you.

I'm thinking something like clover patches would be a fun alternative to grass, though I don't know if people grow clover deliberately. It feels like we were about to waste a great area (about 8mx3m I believe) by just paving the whole thing.

Back to the planning stage, I think! We'll be busy drawing up potential layouts just for this section. I have been wanting to do herb & veggie gardens for a long time, this would be a good place to fit in the herbs at least. Plus some nice soft areas for sitting/playing, and then paved area for bbq and outdoor seating. I still feel we need a fence along the wall as it is quite high, perhaps a rather simple one that we can then plant climby/cascadey plants along.

You're spot on about the goldfish bowl, we never use the backyard for that reason and it's just been wasted space for 2.5 years. But our screening is planted; hopefully building a strong root system and then will burst up when Spring arrives. With any luck!

Miranda, if money is tight, and it is for most of us, plant fruit trees. Every Summer I don't have to buy fruit. Those trees need full sun. So do vege garden beds. Those are very educational for the little one. Plant in north sun.

First to Olldroo, could your cascading plant be Leucothoe fontanesiana or drooping leucothoe: evergreen - clusters of fragrant white flowers in spring?

Miranda: Ask your garden center if they have plants they could call stepables, that can be used instead of your clover and can be walked on occasionally, some being suitable between stepping stones. I'll look for my list and get back to you later.

In the meantime, I ran across a note that will tickle your funnybone.

In her chapter "Run for your life!" Kerry Ann Mendiz writes: "There are some plants that love playing Red Light, Green Light! Every time you turn your back on them, they advance. Perennials like obedient plant (Physostegia virginiana), sundrops (Oenothera fruticosa and speciosa) and 'Silver King' white sage (Artimisia ludoviciana) will not remain stationary. They are out to take over the garden, the yard, the neighborhood...... the world! Lock your door at night."

Cascio, thyme is often used for that. Planted between stepping stones and along paths.

Miranda, I love my forget me nots. Only need one plant, save the seeds and free plants every year. Or let them madly reseed wherever they like. Alyssum is like that too, violets, lots of old fashioned plants take care of themselves!

My internet seems to like to go out to dinner at 6pm every night.

Thanks Luke, hope it can be fixed.

Miranda - apparently Clover is deliberately grown as lawns - found an interesting piece here - http://eartheasy.com/grow_lawn_alternatives.htm#e   Like the fact it doesn't need any fertilizers or other chemicals. Unfortunately it still needs mowing though by the sound of it - 8" or 20cm is long. The only other thing I don't like about Clover is that the flowers really attract bees and that can be anything from unpleasant to dangerous - particularly if kids are running around on it.

I wondered about that drop from your wall with a toddler around, so yes a simple wire fence would be good to grow plants along and you could get some beautiful coloured flowering vines. You wouldn't need it that high though to be able to sit in privacy, when neighbours are looking up. You are in the box seat. You could also do a raised garden for your herbs and veggies along the top of the wall too - so much easier to care for that way.

Have you ever checked out Pinterest? Lots of amazing ideas there for gardens and garden designs - all pretty much DIY too. Some people are amazing the things they think up.

Joe - you are a legend mate - that is the plant. https://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.onlineplantguide.com/Image%2520Library/L/4876.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.onlineplantguide.com/Plant-Details/1484/&h=1536&w=2048&tbnid=iho7PwRJLcWZqM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=200&docid=TFfZYMLo4uK0PM&itg=1&usg=__0CSd6Vvd7Xnw7ddOPovO0A08LKw=

I love how it always looks lush and just never has an off time.

Always loved violets but 40 years after planting some, I'm still digging them out. There is another small viola that has a purple and yellow flower and it is almost indestructible too, would even take being walked on.

Mondo grass is also a favourite alternative, but I'm not keen on the clumping nature of it, it can make it unstable to walk on.

Miranda: A thought for you when planning steps through the upper wall by the back door.

Instead of placing a simple set of steps straight from the house outward, requiring a handrail, consider a half flight parallel to the wall above the wall and another half flight below the wall with a landing between.

More expensive, but more pleasant and more fun, and the greater investment is for the next 20 years, so of lasting value. Also nicer if you add more steps using a 4-5"(10-12cm) riser with a 16-18"(40-45) tread, instead of the standard 6"(15 cm) riser. Remember the rule: 2 risers + 1 tread = 26"(66cm). Hope I got the cm correctly (1"x 2.54 = # of cm, right?)

The landing is usually 5'(150cm) or the width of your steps, which might be as small as 4'(122cm) to accommodate two kids at once, as our shoulders are 2'(61cm wide).

Miranda: Here is the info I was looking for, to offer plants you can walk on, some often, and some only occasionally.

www.stepables.com

www.jeeperscreepers.info

Share this info with your friends and neighbors, but don't let olldroo see it.

analyze first, then plan

:))

You are on the Aussie site, Joe - you left the "U" out of neighbours.

Olldroo, my lexicographer, do you favour, with candour, to belabour my submissions to the land down under? Or do you harbour a joy to labour over the British variations?

Unfortunately, Microsoft tells me that the British forms of the words are misspellings. What am I to do, get the British computer software?

You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you keep me happy when skies are grey. (or is it gray?)

Gee I haven't been called that before, have to add it to my list of credentials. No mate, it is just the Aussie way of taking the mickey out of everyone. You would have the US version of Microsoft with US spelling similar to Apple where our computers have the English version.

Yep, grey is right.

Olldroo

Excuse me for repeating myself, but you are sensational. You have provided me once again, last Wednesday, with great paragraphs to include in my attempts to sell people on my ability to provide them site planning advice. What is your reward due for your contributions to my success?

Houzz Yearbook 2016

Should have been a couple......

What did I do??

Joe, been thinking of both you and Miranda this last week too and wondering if she got any snow and whether you have been affected by the floods.

Olldroo

That is your beauty, why you maintain our respect. You benefit us all, without considering benefit to yourself or that you are doing anything special.

My current residence is Virginia, at the Mason-Dixon line when the North fought the South over the slavery issue, back when Abraham Lincoln sat in the White House. This is where we assume the mild weather begins, which is a joke, thinking weather has boundaries.

Where I was headed is to say that we may have the kindest, most pleasant climate here. If you do seek extreme extremes, go to the Southwest and Southeast. Because of the Rocky Mountains, perhaps, the weather can be less pleasant in the Northwest than in the Northeast. Perhaps Russia pushes their weather our way.

Actually, the weather patterns usually enter the U.S. across Alaska and down along the eastern slopes of the Rockies before heading south and east. Other types, the hurricanes come in the opposite direction, eastward through the Bahamas, then heading Northward before hitting Mexico.

Any land that is coastal may be flooded when a severe storm is brewing offshore. I expect this is true 'down under' in roo-land as well. We can expect more of this in the future, as the icebergs melt with the warming world. We may be drinking more water and doing more irrigation as we mechanize, but it all goes back to the earth.

Stay healthy and keep in touch. You educate and brighten all our lives.

Aw, shucks, thank you Joe. My geography is probably a little off - I saw on the news this week terrible flooding and I was hoping you weren't affected by it. However it was in West Virginia - obviously another State.

We have had a particularly cold snap here that brought snow to our Blue Mountains where Miranda is. I'm just not sure how high up the Mountains she is.

Yes Olldroo, most of our storms come to us across West Virginia, lots of mountains and valleys, idea for flooding. We were all one state until the Civil War. Since that western hill country, full of coal mines, wanted to maintain slavery, Lincoln divided the state in two.

I'm sure this history is fascinating to you, I apologize, just being social.

Hi everyone! I have been putting off updating you all until it was 'done' but as per usual, I'm too impatient.

We've had a lot of big changes since my last update in June! We had the wooden fence done, which pretty much splits the yard in half now. And then shortly after, had a balustrade fence and a 4mx4m paved section installed, all by the same guy. We asked for a 1m gap between the paved area and the wooden fence, and have put in a cute little feature garden with lavendar and herbs growing in pots. We put together some raised garden beds and are growing vegetables (which is a big learning curve, but one that I am enjoying a lot!). And yesterday, we raked out some top soil and seeded the area with white clover seeds, which will hopefully take off pretty quickly.

We're very close to finishing this section of the yard. Originally, we had planned to just pave/deck the whole area, but it felt like a waste of space and money. We will surround the garden beds with white pebbles from our local garden centre and use a row of pavers to divide the two areas cleanly (the metal poles are just place-holders) - and we will get some big pavers to create stepping stones from the door to the fence at the side.

But enough prattling on. Here are some photos! And a before + after from the same angle for a good comparison.

Thank you Miranda, nice to see lunch is all ready too, I'll be there shortly.

Before and after photos are great for getting bearings. It must feel so good to see everything taking shape, All looking really good and I think your decision to leave some soft area was wise from a runoff aspect too, we can get some very intense storms that too much paving can turn to waterfalls and rivers and undermine future work further down.

What plans do you have for shade? Trees? Umbrella? or shade sail?

So what was the reason for diving your yard into two? Is this a play area for the dog? What access is there from one area to the other? Gotta know everything don't I?

Thanks very much! It feels great to make so much progress.

As far as shade, we have a cantilever umbrella that we can put up, but I don't have any long term plans except for a tree we planted. For the time being, it still isn't hot enough to warrant it and sitting in the sun is a very welcome change.

We had the fence installed to keep our two dogs out of everyone else's business. The back of our property drops steeply down and in some places they could easily stand with their front paws on the back fence and bark down at the other dogs in their yards! Thats why we had a wire fence with some cheap bamboo screening up in our early photos. It's also more private from our perspective too, because nobody can see in whereas the other half of the yard is more exposed. There is a gate which is wide enough to fit a vehicle through if needed, so access isn't a problem.

We are planning to sell shortly so it feels like it was a bit of a waste of money... But to look at it another way, it is a private, safe (no steep drops) and secure area which would suit either pets or children. We also need to install a clothes line, so it will go in that side of the yard as well.

Congratulations on making decisions from this mountain of advice. In the end, you probably just took the advice of your mother-in-law - right?

My final advice to you is, when you move, find a more level site. You can still find a level site with great views.

Instead of 95 bits and pieces of advice, why not invite Timandra, Olldro, tele, and macy over for a drink, and get it all mapped out in an afternoon?

Have a good life, we have enjoyed the past year with you, very enjoyable.

Remember, analyze first, then plan.

I'll drink to that Cascio!! I think sloping sites have the potential to create a lot more interest, just not quite that sloping.

Congratulations on the bub Miranda, from a clucky grandma, hope all goes well and smoothly for you.

I don't think it has been a waste of money or effort at all, every bit helps when selling a home and you have made the area look far less daunting for a potential buyer - one who may not have your vision or know about Houzz to get help.

Why are you moving after all this work?? We will await your next dilemma in the new house and don't forget news of the bub when it arrives.

Sounds like a lovely move Miranda and I'm sure your husband has a lot of happy memories to build on. You definitely picked a huge challenge with your present site though so having something established to just maintain will be so much easier and there will be no urgency to make any changes to suit your needs -v- your present site just having to be done to make it liveable.

I remembered you being pregnant when this thread started but I must say I was surprised when I checked back and saw it was 2 years old. Where has that time gone!!!

Look forward to seeing photos of the new house, is it still in the mountains?

Miranda

You appear to be making all the right choices in life.

I will be a little bit presumptuous by offering some advice on helping you to raise your child in touch with nature in this age full of all the electronic lures that keep the kids indoors. or, when outdoors, glued to a small screen, rather than the glory that surrounds them.

I am writing a book about landscape architecture and have a section regarding the importance of embracing nature in the preschool years. - which I would like to forward that section to you.

However, my computer skills are limited to email and US Mail. I don't even know how to attach a picture to the text.

If you would like to receive this draft from my future book, send me your email or postal address, and I'll get it right off to you.

My email is cascio.offsite@gmail.com

Good luck with your new challenges and opportunities.

Joe Cascio

Thanks very much for the kind words, everyone. I have sent an email to you, Joe, so I look forward to reading your draft.

olldroo - Yes we will still be in the mountains, at the opposite end of the same town. It's a very close-knit family and everyone is happy that the house + property will stay in the family. Christmas is held there every year and has been their whole lives, so I suppose we will take over hosting in the years to come!

I will definitely be posting new dilemmas when we move - though they will be about growing veggies and ideas for revamping existing spaces. In the meantime we just need to finish off our place and put it on the market!

Sounds like heaven Miranda, Christmas is for families and being part of a close-knit one means everyone will probably pitch in to make it enjoyable and not all work for you.

I hope the sale goes well, good luck with the move and looking forward to catching up with your new dilemmas.

Well not quite yet, we're still at this place. A couple more small things need to be done and it's a slow process when you are juggling a toddler and work as well. I will share an updated photo of the backyard though as we really love how it looks now.

Olldroo, my friend. I understand you are a snow bunny so I had to report that we finally received some snow - 3 inches (7 1/2 cm) - overwhelming, right? and a week before Spring arrives (on the calander).

Miranda: You have many blessings to enjoy in your very busy life. Keep in touch with us after your move. It has been fun for us all.

Joe Cascio

analyze first, then plan

Snow bunny?? Not me. Practicing my swim strokes while growing webbed feet here.