Kitchen layout and design

9 years ago

Hi Houzzers,

We'd love some advice before embarking on a kitchen reno. At the moment it's a smallish u-shaped kitchen but we'd like to turn it into a g-shaped kitchen to grab some extra bench space.

As you can see from the photos below, there's a cut out for a fridge and freezer. Our fridge doesn't fit there, but we'd like to take out the existing cupboards, move the fridge back there and surround with floor to ceiling cabinets. We'd have a corner pantry, and put an extra cupboard between it and the oven, where there's none at the moment. We were thinking floating shelves on the bare wall near the oven, but would this get too greasy? Then a sink in the same place, and an extra cabinet coming out into the room a hit to create a g shape. Then we could move the fridge and have more room for dining.

Our house is 60s and mostly timber and white, so we were thinking of some sort of simple Scandinavian scheme - white benchtops (I quite like the Frosty Carina caesarstone) and white cupboards with maybe one or two cupboards and the floating shelves in timber (like those retro-type buffets you see with different coloured doors).

Any suggestions for improvement? Is this practical? We imagine it would cost $10-15,000, is that even realistic?
Thanks in advance!

Emma

Featured Answer

Pazz

9 years ago

Hi Emma

Personally, I would advise against a corner pantry cabinet as it can be hard to reach items in the far corner... Here's an idea of a layout that could work and would try to achieve... obviously not in green, and the island would basically be the return bench and then closed-off at one end (G-shape)...

Mid-Century Modern · More Info

So you've got the fridge on the far left... obviously it can just be a freestanding one (integrated ones like in the photo are $$) with maybe an overhead cupboard above... look into investing in a double-door fridge down the track as the doors are narrower and don't require as much space to open leaving you with more walk through room between the fridge and the return bench...

Mid-Century Modern · More Info

Then a full height double door pantry... you can save some $$ by just having standing shelving instead of the pull-out shelves...

KItchen Pantry Systems · More Info

And on the far right you can have the two double cabinet doors as in photo #2 above... or one set of double-door overhead cabinet with open space below for say the microwave... or if you want more pantry and/or are worried about the lost space at the bottom corner, then this is an option with a pull-out corner base cabinet for pots and pans next to cooking zone...

KItchen Pantry Systems · More Info

Then as per your sketch.... an underbench oven, built-in cooktop and rangehoood on one side followed by the dishwasher (if oven is to be electric, check requirements and whether you can have a dishwasher next to it)... your sink on the next side beneath the window... and then the return bench with maybe a 3-drawer base cabinet.

The corner between the dishwasher and the sink unfortunately will end as a bit of a dead space/void, but can be used to connect the plumbing via the cabinetery from dishwasher to sink water/waste...

As for the third corner, I would suggest open shelves accessible from the dining area giving you a little extra storage or to be used for display... you could even make them stand out in wood against the white cabinets (note the colour scheme in this photo, unless you're set on stone benchtops consider a wooden benchtop to save some $$) ...

Kitchen · More Info

As for the open wooden shelves next to the cooktop, not sure how easy that would be to maintain over time with grease, etc particularly wood... but I like the idea and would rather have two sets of wooden shelves on either side of the window...

And finally, I think a budget of $10K would be a bit of a stretch, but $15K+ sounds more realistic... see if you can save a little here and then, e.g. on the benchtop as mentioned above... and/or instead of expensive cabinetery finishes think maybe 'shacker-style' cabinets (simply painted white)... very much on trend, won't date, keeps with the period of the home and styles you're trying to achieve... goes well with wood...

In Frame Shaker Kitchen in Green Blue & Wimborne White · More Info

Well, good luck! Let us know how it all turns out :)

Pas

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Comments (24)

Emma
Original Author
9 years ago
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boundsgreener
9 years ago
Hi. I'm sorry but I think the "G" (which is basically where you fridge is now, right?) will make the dining area quite cramped....it'll make it longer, but it won't be any wider. Maybe the angle of the photos is deceptive.

And please don't put your dishwasher in the place in the drawing because you won't be able to stand at the sink when it is open!

I love your free-standing unit that is under those fixed cabinets. I hope you'll incorporate that somewhere. Oh, and here's a Scandinavian-style kitchen that might be the sort of look you are describing:
Scandinavian Renovation · More Info
Emma
Original Author
9 years ago
I love that kitchen, boundsgreener! If only I had the space! ;)

The G would come out where the bench currently stops just before the fridge, so it should actually create more space for the dining area as the fridge wouldn't encroach on it any more.

Good point about the dishwasher! Will have to move!

Thanks, I really appreciate your advice.
Emma
Original Author
9 years ago
Wow, Pazz, I really appreciate the time you've taken to respond.

I think the suggestion about the corner pantry is a good one, but I'm worried about losing space in a small kitchen. Will have a think about it, maybe that corner cupboard thing is the solution.

I had my doubts about the open shelves near the oven, but I love the idea of having them either side of the window. Thanks!

I just have to work out how to fit the dishwasher in, as boundsgreener said, it will block off the sink if it's near the oven or even if it's where it currently is. Are dishwashers common under sinks, if you can get the sink plumbing to one side? Then I could keep the dishwasher slightly to the left of where it is now, have it open straight out, and not have any drawers on the G bench, so it wouldn't affect them. Then opening shelving on the dining side of the G as you suggest.

Good to know that $ 10000 probably isn't realistic. Is it common to keep existing cupboards and just replace the doors and kickboards? Do you think cabinet makers would mind if it's going to be patchy like that (I.e. some new, some over the top of current cupboards)?

Thanks again!
Pazz
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hi Emma

Yes, boundsgreener's right, dishwasher location isn't practical at all... and I don't think you can fit a dishwasher under the sink because of the sink's depth... at least I've never seen it and eveni if you can it would be a dishdrawer one at best... plus there could be regulations implications etc...

But here's some food for thought... why don't you leave the dishwasher in its current location with the return bench (G-shape) encroaching more into the dining area... I know what you're thinking... what do you do with your dining table and chairs?...

I say, scrap the table (not much space there anyway)... and consider incorporating a wooden dining table top into the return's white stone bench, off-setted at a lower height so you can still use your current chairs... and recycle the current table's wooden top into those wooden open shelves either side of the window... e.g.

contemporary penthouse · More Info

As for trying to use part of the existing cabinetery and replacing the doors and adding to it, etc?... hmmm I would be careful, it may not necessarily work out much cheaper... by the time they work around trying to make/fix little adjustments here and there, what you may save on cabinets you'll probably spend in labour... kinda like gutting a house and revonating it against knocking down and building from scratch, not much of a difference...

People normally do that if there's a particular feature they want to keep and not necessarily cause of cost... I say contact a few cabinet makers, get a few quotes, do your numbers and you'll work it out... if you can stretch a few $$, I would recommend you replace all the cabinetry... plus it will give you a more streamline, consistent look.

Hope that helps :)
Emma
Original Author
9 years ago
Wow, I love that integrated table!! Now just got to think about cost...

Thanks for the advice about replacing cupboards - will get a few quotes but it sounds like it will be too fiddly. Perhaps there's someone on gumtree looking for a whole second hand kitchen anyway!
boundsgreener
9 years ago
Yes, that kitchen pic I attached is amazing and vast - it was for inspirational purposes only!

I strongly recommend you draw out your plan to scale and tape it out on the floor so you can see what space you will be working in. I'm worried for you that'll end up being a one person kitchen. e.g. if the area is 2.4m and counters are 60cms each, then standing in the sink area and behind the G will be 1.2m and I understand the fridge will be tucked into where the freestanding unit currently is, but work out how far out it'll actually stick into the room.
Emma
Original Author
9 years ago
Good idea, boundsgreener, I'll get the tape out tomorrow!

Pazz, are skaker style cabinets cheaper or simpler than normal cabinets? I can't really tell the difference from the photo, although I do like the simple cut outs in the doors.
boundsgreener
9 years ago
Oh good. I hope it'll give you a better idea of the space so you can create your ideal kitchen. Pazz has great suggestions. I really don't think you have room for a G but you can stick to a U (or C, if you prefer) and still have a really functional kitchen and dining area. A couple of other ideas have occurred to me:

A moveable island could be really good. I would measure your freestanding unit and see if it would work as an island if it had casters on it - proper casters that you can lock into place. When it is too crowded/too many people, you can just push it out of the way.

What is behind the dining table - is it windows or doors/full length windows? From the light in the second lot of photos it looks like they are full length. Either way, I think you can create banquette seating. I would forget the G and take the cabinets to where the fridge is now and put built in seating to the end of the wall, where the wood topped wine cabinet is now. If you have full length windows, you can have a bench with back/church pew against the window. If not full length, continue the built in seating around that side. In my experience, kids and adults love a banquette and it frees up space. You can add a chair or two on the other sides easily.
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You could even do it as one built in against the wall and one free standing, like a real diner!
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Pazz
9 years ago
Hi Emma

Re cabinet doors, as far as I know the cheapest option out there is standard plain laminate (melamine) doors which are the most common... however you said you wanted white cabinets, and most people who choose white cabinets go for a vinyl wrap or 2-pack finish as it's easier to maintain but very $$...

The reason I suggested the 'shaker' style doors is not only because of the look you're after but also to give the plain white cabinets some dimension... I'm not too sure if 'shaker' can be done in laminate or only wood... if the latter and it's to be painted white anyway they may not need to use expensive wood... check with the cabinet makers when you get the quotes...

If the 'shaker' style is too much $$ then as an alternative option you may also want to consider (and my personal preference) the 'Laminex Textured Doors' (I only know of 'Laminex' or 'Formica' same company which is the most common in Aus)... it's a notch up from your standard plain laminate but much cheaper than vinyl/2pac...

http://www.laminex.com.au/search.php?search=riven&action=products

If you're going for a white stone benchtop, then I would even suggest the timber-look textured doors, e.g. 'Sublime Teak' or 'Seasoned Oak' in the 'Riven' finish... you can get up 4-5 free samples from the 'Laminex' website which they post out to you within a week or so to get a real feel for it...
Connie
9 years ago
hi. i bought an old solid timber kitchen on ebay, and repainted the doors white...and it cost only $500 plus paint. try ebay and gumtree-there are often 2nd hand kitchens. i get what you are saying about wanting more bench space, but i think a G shape will REALLY cramp the room. I would go with a wrap around u. fridge where you said, with a bank of pantry cupboards(with drawers) filling in the gap. No corner pantry....make a appliance garage in that corner. wont take up as much space as the corner pantry, so you gain a bit more benchtop back, which is more versatile. from the dishwasher to the right, (behind the table) i would do a skinny bank of cupboards, with a benchtop (perhaps only 40cm deep) this could be all your crockery, glasses and serving ware...handy to the dishwasher and the table. then put castors on that beautiful cupboard you have, and use it as a movable island. again, gives you more flexibility, as well as extra workspace. You could then put open shelves all the way along there, perhaps from the right of the window, so away from the grease of the cooktop. good luck-going through the same again at the moment ( remodelling the room, but keeping/reconfiguring that 2nd hand set of cupboards for the 2nd time!). and you will be surprised how far $10k can get you, especially if you can do some of the owrk yourself.
Connie
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
can you remove the wall where the granite topped cupboard is? if so, I would. then put your table in that spot, and go with an L shaped, open plan kitchen. floor to ceiling cupboards on the left hand wall (where you put the oven), and sink, oven, fridge all along the current sink wall. You could get approx 3 x 1m lengths of bench seperating between the 3 of them. and depending on if that is a door/window behind the dining table...possible make it a u-shape, which will again, give you even more benchtop and storage. kitchen tables make great extra workbenches....and i have only just started to appreciate how nice it is, to sit at the table to peel and chop, after a day on my feet. our grandma's had the right idea, and in a small space, sometimes its better to multi-task our furniture, than ourselves and our wallets.
hazzaran
9 years ago
Lots of great advice and ideas so far, Emma. Taking out the wall with the dark topped cabinet against it would really open up your room. Then add a shallow pantry cupboard along the back wall or continue the cupboards on the sink wall all the way to the large window wall. You could put pantry cupboards there and they could be standard depth. I would spend the extra $ and put pull outs in a deeper pantry. It will save you years of aggravation hunting for stuff at the back of the shelves.
If you wanted the banquette seating this space could also be used for that but may not be needed if you have more room to place your table more to the centre of the room with that wall gone.
Leave your dishwasher beside the sink where you have it. Put a counter depth, French door fridge to the right as you enter the room and the stove top along the same wall far enough away from the fridge for code. Adding open shelving along the sink wall over the dishwasher would be nice if you like that look. I did a rough drawing of my suggestions. Good luck.
Emma
Original Author
9 years ago
Hi everyone, sorry for the delay in replying! So many thoughtful suggestions, thank you.

I haven't yet got around to taping out the kitchen, boundsgreener, but I hope too soon. Even just pacing it out has made me realise you're all right, there's no way a G shape will work. The space at the sink surrounded by the benches would be less than one metre. So that's good to realise now!

I can't do banquet seating as there's a window behind the table. The wall behind the buffet unit is structural so we can't remove it (and I'd imagine it might get expensive too!)

So what I'm thinking now is more a revamp/update with the current layout, but still moving the fridge across and creating a pantry, plus an appliances garage (love that term!) in the corner. Oven, sink and dishwasher in the same spots.

This will still give more room for dining as the fridge won't be taking up space on that side of the kitchen.

I'm now worried about losing the bench space that the buffet unit gives us, though. It was going to be offset by the extra G shape, but as that's gone and there won't be any room for the buffet (though I'd love to keep it as an island on wheels, hazzaran!) there will be less bench space than before.

I like the idea about a wooden benchtop to save money, Pazz, but is it practical? Won't it get lots of bacteria in it? I'd still love some natural stone in there somewhere, and was thinking of those beautiful hexagon marble tiles they have on the Block. That might be cheaper than a caesarstone benchtop! I am not a big fan of laminate, though, for some reason it always really looks really plasticy to me.

Thanks again for all your great advice and for helping avert a layout disaster! I really appreciate all the advice.
Emma
Original Author
9 years ago
you see on the Block. Might be cheaper than a caesarstone benchtop!

Thanks again for all your advice and for helping avert a layout disaster! I really appreciate all your advice.
Emma
Original Author
9 years ago
Connie, what sort of work did you do yourself? Good luck with your reno, sounds exciting!
Connie
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I am a nurse......... (with a pent up interior designer hiding inside ;)
I do think you have space to put a skinny island bench still..on wheels. maybe one that tucks under another part, that can be pulled out when you need it.
Connie
9 years ago
or something like these...I could imagine the long swivel bench working along the wall "behind " the table, which could swing around into that "G" whenever you need it, and being a handly sideboard for the rest of the time.
I am considering the pull out drawer benchtop-friends have one, and for the loss of 1 underbench drawer, they have 1m of sturdy benchtop when they need it.

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Emma
Original Author
9 years ago
I'm sorry, Connie, I meant what work did you do on your kitchem reno... I wasn't clear! I'm an office worker myself but am very keen to get into a bit of kitchen DIY but not sure what I can do.
Connie
9 years ago
hahaha-i did thinkl it was an unusual question...but thought, perhaps you think I am a "tradie". (having gone back and read it properly-i see my mistake) We are actually on the 2nd kitchen renovation at the moment. Frist time round, we just gutted the room (all 70's laminate). Reconfigured it, using the 2nd hand timber kitchen. I did all the planning and design, hubby made new carcasses for the cupboards that didn't work in their original way. if you can cut a square, and put in some screws, its not beyond anyone. just remember to measure (at least) twice, so you only end up cutting once. we bought recycled hardwood floorboards, which hubby glued onto recycled laminate benchtops (we bought these at the salvage yard and cut them down to fit. this way we had proper waterproof material under the timber. he then put som screws through as well, to prevent any warping, and sanded down with an electric sander. we sealed with a natural orange-oil. I sanded and painted everything, we put new handles on the doors, a new sink and oven.
J
9 years ago
Hi,
I think you have a fairly functional layout already. But it's not working because the fridge isn't able to fit against the wall and it's not a efficient use of the space.
You save money keeping the hob / oven and sink where it is.
I suggest, place the fridge against the left wall, into a wall of full height cupboards. A pantry into the corner, but a different style than what you had drawn. It's a longer one with a sliding door like in this nice kitchen I found.

http://houzz.com/photos/20798025

This image shows pretty much your kitchen. Notice the sliding pantry cupboard thingy? There are more detailed pics in the info.

Depending how big you fridge is, you could maybe add into the tall cupboards a open shelf for the microwave or even a wall oven.

Then looking ahead leave your oven against the back wall and add a mix of open shelves and overhead cupboards as you wish.

On the right wall, sink around where it is and dishwasher on its right. I'd be inclined to leave the wall free from cupboards over here.

I think you would have around 4-5m of bench space. Even more if you go for induction hob as you can use that as a workspace as well.

Here's a quick sketch
J
9 years ago
Oh and don't forget to check out ikea kitchens. Even if you get the carcasses and add your own doors. Easy to assemble with a a good warranty.
Good luck!
Emma
Original Author
9 years ago
Connie, that sounds amazing!

Jenpotts, thank you! I think that layout is pretty much what I am thinking now, so it's good to have that confirmed. Love the sliding pantry door idea! what would go in the corner of the room? Would the pantry go all the way?