Thanks all. He just called to say the tiler will be here at about 3pm - which doesn't fill me with confidence that he is going to take the rectification work seriously!

Well I hope the builder will be there to go through all this with the tiler. He should not be leaving you to deal with it, especially if the tiler barely speaks English. Insist on the builder being there. Meanwhile, do ring Fair Trading, they will give you good support and help you feel less anxious.

Hang in there mate, by now his incompetency and inefficiency does not surprise any of us. I think when he does show you should inform him you plan to have the tiling checked by a reputable trades person for a second opinion before any further payment is made. If you have any friends in the building business I would be tempted now to get them to pop by and check it out or better still have them there at 3. The only thing is we have no guarantee he will show up then.. The fact that he is coming so late in the day tells me he is all ready onto his next job & he just wants yours to go away, so he is not taking you seriously . Be strong

Yep. Keen to here how she got on .......

After discussing with builder, rectification work has been delayed till tomorrow morning so tiler can come fresh and spend a full day on the job rather than come after a full day of tiling elsewhere. They have promised to address all the issues raised. Fingers crossed.

Cheers, so far so good

Well at least that is one thing that makes sense, of course it is going to take him a full day at least. Everything crossed.

So sorry Amanda. Please think carefully before you agree to anything - you have to live with this forever, he walks away. I know it is hard when you are so inconvenienced but this is what they play on.

Amanda, hang in there and stay strong - stick to your guns. You will come out the other side - but please don't settle for things that you're not happy with - you're spending a lot of money and you'll need to live with this for years to come. Hopefully your builder has gotten the message loud and clear but you could always get inspections done and look at claiming against his insurance as well as put into complaints to the HIA assuming that he's a member. The other thing you can do when this is all behind you to give yourself some closure - get on TrueLocal.com.au and give him a total spray - sending him the link for it - nothing says P*SSED OFF CLIENT like a bad review...

Difficult to advise without understanding details, and I may be jumping to conclusions however I'll make the comment that if it's inherent potential waterproofing or draining/fall weakness that's more concerning than any aesthetic issue as it will in time compromise structure etc...it will be better (and cheaper!) to sort out now rather than risk issues down the track and perhaps and opportunity to get it 100%.

As a side story I've seen a glass mosaic tile job on a 22m long lap pool get completely ripped out and redone (Cost approx $30K!!). The job was in hindsight way beyond the first tiler that was dropped on it - it was not properly prepared nor grouted and looked awful and in places was actually dangerous. It was a REALLY hard decision at the time but no doubt the right one - when the "bad" tiling came out it literally fell off in sheets and there would have been massive /more expensive issues down the track if it had been left as is.

Sure that example was on a much a larger scale job, but the principle is no different - prep is key - no shortcuts in this area.

Sorry this has been a nightmare for you, but short term pain for long term gain may be required here

Good luck :)

We bought a large 600mm long plain marble tile to do the top of the bath. Looks a lot better. The cut is pretty dodgy though. In the last photo you can see for the half of that top (there are two tile pieces there) close to the back wall its darker. The large tile we had had some lighter sections that would have blended nicely with the other piece. However he said he took the dark piece as it was the top of the tile so he would only have to cut one side as its impossible to cut marble cleanly.

You can see the quality of his cuts in the first photo I posted. he says the chippy bits will fill in with silicone. Its probably something only I will notice at this point so will have to let it go.

The comment I made last night about the other big problem bothering me that I think we have to live with is that they muffed up all the measurements in the shower.

The strip drain doesn't look right to me - too short and too off centre? They assure me its correct.

And the shower is still off centre and can't be fixed. When they marked up the plumbing they placed the mixer and the outlet hose dead centre of the 1000mm shower recess. That means there is a pipe running from that tap to where the house connects. Which in turn meant that the shower rail.bar had to be placed off centre. They put it about 150mm away from the house outlet initially but that made the shower rose completely off centre so I was hitting the shower screen with my elbow and standing well in the left third of the shower. I made them rip off the tiles to reposition to get it closer to centre. But as you can see the rail squished right up against the hose outlet. its still about 3cm off centre.

I am one of those people that is driven mad by off centre things so maybe I'm being picky. But at this point to have to rip it all out and fix the whole positioning is too stressful to contemplate.

I am a little worried at the waterproofing. My husband took photos as they did it. It did pull off the waterproof membrane when they removed those tiles. He then painted some squishy white stuff on - apparently a new membrane (we have photos) and then re-tiled over. I'm hoping this has been done correctly but would have now idea how I would know.

I'm just wondering if I should have an independent inspector take a look at the job before I pay them. If anyone has any recommendations inner west Sydney? Would it be general building inspector I'd look for? Or someone bathroom specific?

Gosh Amanda, I wish I could help you more but you definitely need an expert and I really think for peace of mind I would definitely have an independent inspector. Hopefully an inspector would be professional enough to know his area of expertise and advise you accordingly.

I do know that with waterproofing is that it has to be left to completely dry before tiles can be laid. My builder timed his waterproofing so he did it on a Friday and then left me with a heavy duty heater (it was winter) to have on over the weekend to ensure it was well and truly dry on the Monday. He even called by on the Sunday to check progress. It your guy painted something on the wall and tiled immediately then I would be very cautious.

What I am picking up on though is the glass shelf and it's proximity to the shower hose. I think every time you use the head, you will be knocking things off the shelf.

Is it really impossible to cut marble cleanly or is that his version??

Amanda

For an independent reputable inspection, only one to use is Archicentre. Australian Institute of Architects at archicentre.com.au.....They have defect advise and Dispute expert advise, they do site visits. ( don't know the cost ),

Remember if builder is member of Master Builders, ( not sure HIA ) he has a free legal service available to him.

To lining up mixer and shower rose, this should have been the only instruction to your plumber, sometimes there is confusion as to what should be inline........... .Your linear drain should have been longer, we get them custom made from 316 stainless at Caringbah ( Sydney )i 3/4 days at app $ 450 delivered.

A good tiler in Sydney is worth the expense, by the photos 600x300 white ceramic on walls, the floor and bath front and the marble mosiacs our tiler incl gst $ 3,500 to $ 4,000. At the end of the day tiling is the major item.

I assume you have a written contract with progress payments: and as job is over $ 20,000 Home Warranty Insurance. If you have a contract other than Dept of Fair Trading Contract with your builder, you can go to Dept Of Fair Trading website and download contacts for work over $ 20,000, it has clauses on construction and dispute resolution.

At $ 20,000 you should have had a mixer/diverter ) or 2 mixers ) with o/head shower from the ceiling AND hand held on rail, Sossex now have a double mixer , shower shelf should be above shoulder height or below mixer.Ken Evers Beach Bathrooms , Sydney

Amanda, agree Steven & Ken Evers, I'd try the nearest Archicentre branch - they should be able to provide some form of inspection/report. Is there a construction contract in place. Whatever you do don't pay anymore until issues clarified and resolved to your satisfaction. It's the only leverage you've really got here.

Obviously critical errors were made at rough-in. If it was known a shower rail was to be installed any plumber worth their salt would know to offset outlet, or if not should have been directed by the managing builder. Same applies to the shower grate. It looks wrong and in my opinion compromises / de-values the finished product. These guys should know better; that is of course unless you engaged a cheap option. It's just too loose/sloppy end result for what you're aiming for with the overall look.

Hope this helps

thanks for following up. The saga continue. Daily shouting matches but slowly chipping away at having unsatisfactory bits rectified. Having to let go of a few issues. They fixed up around the bath. Pluming can't be moved so shower setup we will have to live with. the grate is too short but would involve digging up tiles again so we decided we will have to live with that.

The main worry for us is the quality of the waterproofing where they pulled off and re-tiled around shower and bath. I am having trouble finding an inspector who will comment on waterproofing issues. Archicentre won't do it.

Few more bits and pieces for them to fix tomorrow - including that original hallway to tile threshold - which pales into insignificance now!

For your entertainment.... here is the outside of the bathroom window. (same builder)

I guess the carpenter thought If he hammered in that random bit of timber on the right hand side the window would stay in.

Don't even get me started on the brickwork. Bit of a long and complicated story as to how it got to that point - this is the 'rectified' version.

Oh Amanda , what an ordeal your having it just seems to go on & on. I have my fingers crossed that the right authorities can assist you. Meantime I'd be putting it out there,the names of the tradies you are using and frankly I'd be bad mouthing them to anyone who will listen. We renovated our bathroom with a step in shower no screen, toilet and wall hung vanity, no bath. We did floor to ceiling porcelain tiles, the same on the floor. Our towel rails are beautiful cost I think about $200 each. The cost of our complete bathroom including plaster and paint $16000. I would be getting your tradies to start paying you for your stress and inconvenience. Hang in there I would be jumping up and down until they make right what is wrong. Best of luck

I"m feeling extremely ripped off. Though their quote was about the same as what other companies were quoting. Must be a special 'Haberfield' price.

We have located a building inspector who will also comment on the waterproofing issues. He charges $600 - my husband is not keen to spend more money but I'm thinking its possibly good insurance.

Amanda, there is no price on peace of mind. I know that is easy to say when you are not paying it, and your coffers must be pretty low at this stage but sadly it is going to be necessary for the future. Deduct that $600 from the builder too, he should not have caused you to feel this way. Ensure you get a solid and explicit written guarantee from him too. Write up what you want and have him sign it. That will be a good test.

I'm just so sorry you are going through all this (((hugs))).

Today/Tonight like shoddy builder stories too.

I don't like those visas, doing our kids' generation out of Aussie jobs and apprenticeships! Call a lawyer.

Those visas have nothing to do with skilled migration. Even the most unskilled labourers can get them and Aussie employers are happy to employ them on the cheap and yes, TTT depriving locally trained workers out of proper waged jobs.

The govt closed our local TAFE too!

Sorry for your ordeal Amanda. I am doing one bathroom reno right now, and we are about to do an extension. Reading your story has given me lots to think about and watch for. We also had problems with our bathroom floor, but the tiler is a perfectionist and wouldn't tile it until it was right. Thankyou so much for sharing.

Hi Amanda. I came across this post when looking at tile and floor fall advice. What an amazing post. You poor thing. I'm keen to know how the job ended up, was it rectified satisfactorily and are you still sane at the end of this project? I'm part-way through a major renovation....

Hi - This is precisely the issue that I had from bathroom to kauri flooring in hall. Builder and tiler worked together and the solution was an angled slice of wood, butting up against the tiles and feathering out to join the floor boards. Then stained and sealed to match the kauri. These things are never perfect, but this solution works really well and looks seamless! Hope that helps. Michelle

Hi

Came across this post while looking for any regulations for the height of the step from the hallway into the bathroom as mine looks even BIGGER than yours Amanda !

We now have a 6.5cm step up into our bathroom and the builder says this is "normal" … what is not normal is that everyone trips on the step as they enter the bathroom... any one have any ideas if there is an Australian standard for this height ?

oh and hope you finally got the bathroom of your dreams Amanda !

HU - 6.5cm sounds VERY steep to me. No idea on the Aus standards issue

Since this thread started I've moved house and renovated two more bathrooms and this "step" issue is definitely becoming a headache. You know, we are such slavish followers of trends, I just have to wonder at times how much we are becoming victims of them too.

When I built my first house over 50 years ago, most homes were built on piers with timber flooring and concrete was only used in bathrooms and laundries, but the levels were adjusted so when tiles were laid in wet areas the transition was minimal. Floor tiles were also thinner than today's tiles, in most cases they were smaller tiles too and not these great slabs we use today that obviously need to be thicker for strength.

Now we are building more slab on ground homes, no provision is being made for the thickness of floor tiles to ensure a more seamless transition between areas. My front entrance is tiled and has a 2cm "step" down to the lounge and family room areas and even that 2cm I find people constantly tripping over. I plan on removing these tiles and replacing the whole entry/kitchen/family area with vinyl planking. Carpet in the lounge room helps offset that step a little but I was told recently by people who have addressed this issue this way that putting an extra layer of underfelt within the doorway area works very well to help offset this problem.

When I renovated the ensuite I now have this step issue but the tiles had been glued down with an unknown product of super strength that gave my bathroom guy a lot of grief trying to jackhammer up - took him 2 days to remove them and screed the floor to his standard - and he decided he could not do the main bathroom in a realistic time frame to meet the price he quoted me, he felt he could not even guarantee the standard of work he wanted to achieve so his suggestion was to tile over the existing tiles and when he got to the doorway he would add an extra part tile sloping to down to the floor level similar to what pucciplan described with his timber. He assured me he had done it with many other renovations, it was barely noticeable and would solve the issue much easier and cheaper for me and far less time consuming. In the meantime as I have carpet in the hallway we heard of the idea of using an extra layer of underlay and I've chosen this option. My laundry is right opposite the bathroom and those tiles will be replaced too. On close inspection of the original construction, we discovered no waste drain was put into the laundry, the tiles were drained towards the external door, which is apparantly acceptable .............EXCEPT, they then put a dam across the floor inside the doorway to stop rainwater coming in under the external door!!!! Now the laundry tiles will be laid over the top of the existing ones as well to allow for any possible accident needing drainage. Fortunately I've had no weather issues but we will put a rubber flap at the base of the door, just in case, and I will again do the extra layer of underlay under the carpet and hopefully will achieve a satisfactory result. At least the two doorways will match.

Quite frankly though, I'm finding so many design issues these days, I really think the whole home building industry needs a thorough overhaul. I think as I age too, so many more issues are coming to light BUT they are obviously issues that could affect anyone of any age. I think we need to forget "trends" that don't consider the big picture of things and come back down to basic commonsense.

HU - I'm really at a loss as to how your builder managed to get a 6.5cm step to the bathroom, that is absolutely ridiculous. The only thing I can think of is there may have been a slope issue for drainage, but surely it could still not have been that much, anything that much out should have been picked up when the building was inspected during construction. "Normal" is a good excuse for laziness or shoddy workmanship.

I think from reading your posts, you are in an apartment?? You would then have slab floors?? Therefore I can't see the need for the step to be above 2cm. Definitely take this further - Fair Trading should be able to help you, the standard heights for steps varies according to location and use - it is a bit of a minefield to work out. Good luck.

Amanda - how did all your renos go in the end? Sounds like you are still sane. :)

Hi - I know this is very old but my friend (near you, Amanda!) has just had a bathroom done and ended up with a surprise 3.5cm step between the hallway and the bathroom. This is definitely a stuff up since they actually had to repour the concrete after digging out the bath etc, so could totally have taken new tiles (not that thick anyway) and under floor heating into consideration when they did it. But I am also trying to find some kind of Australian standard about it, and can't, which is absurd! Surely all this should be clearly laid out somewhere! Does anyone know where to find these regulations?

Also, Amanda, if you're still checking! Would you happen to have the name of the building inspector you found that would help you? My friend is very worried that she won't find anyone willing to comment on the work as she's had issues in the past.

Jacqui, The builder should have worked this out and advised client before starting works. It can often happen due to clients desire to have an open shower requiring the whole bathroom floor to drain away from the door. If you can’t lower the subfloor enough everything adds up. A 2cm is typical where the hall outside the bathroom is actually the subfloor. Timber floorboards. So when you add tile and underlay to this will get the difference. I guess adding underfloor heating adds some too. A tile edge strip, metal or timber is added to protect the edge of tiles. In my house we have quad.
If we returned carpet to the hall the difference is made up

Jacqui

The only time the floor level of bathroom tiles and adjoining room can't be achieved is in an apartment/unit/townhouse.

However

A step can be overcome by sloping the joining tile to both room floor levels, however, the door water bar needs to be a U shape, inside the sloped tile. ( additional cost to waterproofer

In other cases a floor can be lowered, ( a concrete slab replaced with a Scyon floor)

Again

This must be to Building Code, ( 2020 ) the ground may require excavating, additional piers, increasing the height of piers, increasing the height of dwarf walls, levelling piers,

To finish the floor level of the bathroom tiles with the floor level of the adjoining room becomes a cost factor, ( a variation ? ) if the floor of the bathroom requires lowering the minimum cost

$5,000.

Unfortunately it has become quality versus cost, with the overwhelming majority of home owners after the lowest price,