mordster

Too many Windows / Light?

Robbi Zed
4 years ago

Do you think I will need the kitchen window splash back (1420 X 550) for light (W03) ? Given that there is a 1800 wide glass sliding door next to it (which is the dining area) and a long, narrow 2400X600 sash window on the left of it (where a study nook is - W02) And also 3300 wide stackers at the end past the fireplace (facing north.) It's an open plan area with study nook, kitchen/dining and lounge. It's an East facing wall so a lot of lovely morning light streams through and I don't know if there's a need for the window splash back since there's not too much distance between the windows/glass doors. Will there be enough light without it? If I take it out, the distance between the narrow window (W02) and the sliding doors is just over 3000. The entire area width from the start of the W02 window to the other end where the stackers are is around 10 metres.

thanks in advance

Comments (41)

  • Martin Carr
    4 years ago

    Personally I like window splash backs so I'd keep it.

    You can always put a roller blind on the sash window if it gets too bright.

    Robbi Zed thanked Martin Carr
  • LesleyH
    4 years ago
    I feel you don't want it. If you find there is not enough light later , can you put in a skylight?
    Robbi Zed thanked LesleyH
  • PRO
    Get Decked Out
    4 years ago

    I love the look of window splash backs but we were talked out of it by our window supplier on an upcoming project mainly because our gas cooktop would effect the glass and the powdercoated aluminium frame. Unless its a media room darkness can kill any room. Just my 2 cents worth but something to consider.

    Robbi Zed thanked Get Decked Out
  • Koule' Krayon
    4 years ago
    I have a window in my kitchen and it makes the space so much more functional.
    You can never have too much natural light. These fixed glass windows are relatively cheap. However if you change your mind later they can be costly to install.
  • Koule' Krayon
    4 years ago
    Could you post a photo of dimensioned floor plan with north point
    Robbi Zed thanked Koule' Krayon
  • Robbi Zed
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Thanks Koule' Krayon. Here is the plan which shows the whole open plan with stackers opening up at the end 3300(width) X 2400(height). It also gives you an idea about the size of the space and shows what internal areas the windows/doors affect. The skylight adjacent to the island bench has been moved further down the hall to be adjacent to bathroom. Or do yo think if the skylight remains as per plan, I wouldn't really need that window splash back? keeping in mind, its only 1450 X 450 or so? And given that the 1800 sliding door is close by? My concern about the splash back is, it would get dirty inside and outside or is this a false assumption? Also, the fact that I wouldn't be able to cover it to regulate the light/heat coming in as you would, say with a window that you could put a shutter on? And what about at night - just leave it as is without covering? Or is there a covering for this type of window? thanks in advance for your thoughts.

  • oklouise
    4 years ago

    glass splashbacks definately get very dirty but for extra lighting without the need for any windows or holes in the roof check out Solar Skylights (Acol or Ezylite brands available from Bunnings) great for hallways and bathrooms

    Robbi Zed thanked oklouise
  • Koule' Krayon
    4 years ago
    Ok so I would recommend you put this window in.
    However to determine if it was required
    I would calculate your floor area in this combined space.
    Next Add up the combined area of your windows. If this works out to be 10% of your floor area then legally it's compliant.
    There is no restriction on max. light you can have.
    Robbi Zed thanked Koule' Krayon
  • Robbi Zed
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Thanks Koule' Krayon. Yes, I'm pretty sure it's within legal compliance it's more about me thinking that perhaps I won't be able to regulate the light if it's too bright at any particular time as there won't be any window covering on it. Do you know whether a Velux skylight 900 X 600 positioned as shown would provide enough light in that kitchen area if the window splash back wasn't there? So you know what kind of light the skylights give? eg. just downwards or does it reach a fair way? Also, what about Oklouise's comment about the splash back getting pretty dirty on both inside and outside?

  • annb1997
    4 years ago

    Hi. In my combined kitchen/dining rm (9 x 5) there are two windows like yours, although mine are sliders. One of them is positioned just left of the cooktop and runs partially above the bench. So it does not serve as a splashback. Opposite, on west side, is a 4+m wide glass stacker door and adjacent to this is a 3+m wide sliding glass door, facing north. I do not have the cooking splashes that possibly yours would, but I do have to contend with an awful lot of dust that finds its way indoors due to where we live. All of our windows have external blinds, controlled remotely. I notice the window you are writing about is an awning. If you decide to keep the window, perhaps it can be changed to a slider so you could have an external blind. I don't know if this is of interest to you. I will say that I do not regret having an abundance of natural light in this room, although I couldn't have done so without addressing the harsh summer sun. If I had your exact Dilemna, I believe I would be more inclined to keep the window as a splashback and accept the cleaning that went along with it, and place a bigger priority on more natural light. What type of cooktop are you having? Get Decked Out mentioned proximity of glass to gas, so it sounds like it may be a concern. I hope this helps.

    Robbi Zed thanked annb1997
  • Alison Cook
    4 years ago

    Window splashbacks are a practical option. If you have a cooktop nearby, then ensure you use 6mm toughened glass as a minimum. Avoid low-e glass as the coating on the glass is not good for cleaning. You currently show the window as an awning - make it a fixed panel. Good luck!

    Robbi Zed thanked Alison Cook
  • PRO
    Protek window tinting & blinds
    4 years ago

    Hi Robbi, having read all the previous responses and my own professional experiences as a window tinter trying to solve customers issues like yours for the past 34 years; it's not quite as simple as many would like to think as there are too many issues with each having there own pros and cons ,comes into it.. .Firstly, ( if you keep the window) one has to coincider that all kitchen areas are going to get a build up of cooking fats/ greasy coatings plus any prep work of food items end up sticking to all the surfaces which in turn attracts further dirt an dust which in turn will make cleaning a problem ,particularly if blinds/ curtains where considered to aid privacy and glare/ heat issues when used in and around the cooking area.

    Therefore avoid loose hanging fabrics where ever possible ( coincided a fire hazard )apart from an out side awning ; which have there own pros and cons to coincider.

    As to how low or high the window is set is another consideration . Too low ; below your eyeline ;I concider a nuisance if you can't see out without cranking your head down each time . Rather have it up higher with a glass splash back up against the wall and be able to see out and control any sun and privacy issues with window tinting or using an easy to clean rollup blind or use the combination of the two as these two together work really well as the blind can be higher up from bench area and the tinting can aid with other sun and privacy issues etc.

    Installing a suitable privacy and / or sun control window films is a practical solution as the heat from the cooking stoves has never been a problem as I've installed them very close to fire place flues without any problems as the heat from them is far greater than from cooking stoves. Also , there much easier and quicker to keep clean .

    The only trade off is the choices as to be able to see out ;no matter how dark or reflective the film is , it will allow vision in at night when the difference in lighting changes unless one chooses a frosted / opaque film that allows maximum light, in but offers night time privacy without having to have blinds / curtains etc .

    The down side to this choice is not able to see out unless one chooses a decorative frosted film with open cut pattern in the film which will allow some limited vision both ways .

    With many thousands of film choices available one should find something that may offer a way to solve this problem cheaply and effectively if you retain the window .

    As to the options of wether to have a window or not .

    One would need to concider if you have a view worth looking at as well.

    If you don't have a decent view, the frosted film is the way to go and adds to your privacy and still have plenty of natural light .

    Whilst you may only get the morning sun for a shorter time span than if orentated north or westly , concider glare and heat issues etc that can present a problem. Even indirect light can cause glare issues from off any neighbouring-light coloured painted surfaces / shiny metal roofs ( particular if your on a hill etc. )

    Having a window also means you loose some wall space that could be used for hangthing up items and adding any additional shelving that may come in handy .

    As for the amount of light from the side windows being sufficient , many open planned layouts I've seen ,seem to have plenty of light and from the plans you have shown ,,I believe there will be plenty if you have Windows adjacent from the lounge area / dinning area as well.

    skylights can be useful to solve really bad natural lighting conditions and preferable to have the light from above or from behind or rear sides rather than directly in one's eyes.

    What's the point of having the extra window if you end up covering up and cutting the light back because the glare, etc. causes you a problem.

    May as well not have the window in the first place !!!!

    lots to concider . Can contact me directly if you need further advice .( Protek window tinting- Tas.)



    Robbi Zed thanked Protek window tinting & blinds
  • PRO
    Protek window tinting & blinds
    4 years ago

    Further to my comment above .

    One prior comment on type of window to use between sliders / awning and fixed .

    sliders tend to collect dead insects and dirt etc . Whilst generally conciderd the cheapest option ; I'd rather awning or fixed ..and yes ! to avoid using "low e glass " as Its not suitable for installing films onto either . Particularlly if the film needs to be removed at some stage . Certainly , toughen glass is best around hot areas as it can generally withstand much high temperatures .

    Robbi Zed thanked Protek window tinting & blinds
  • KK1000
    4 years ago
    If you are going for frosted film might as well get obscure white glass and you don't have to deal with replacing film and you don't have to worry about scratches.
    Robbi Zed thanked KK1000
  • siriuskey
    4 years ago

    All splash backs get dirty and need cleaning so not a problem clear fixed glass would give light & view to outside area, less complicated and expensive, but you might have to consider a fixed panel of other material behind the cooker if it's gas. Just wondering why the kitchen isn't on the opposite wall so that you could have a larger opening instead of 3 smaller windows? good luck

    Robbi Zed thanked siriuskey
  • Robbi Zed
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Thanks siriuskey. The opposite wall is pretty much a thoroughfare coming in from the hallway and I would want it to be open rather than obstructed by the kitchen. Yes, it should be a fixed panel window splash back - it's a mistake that it appears as an openable awning window. A fixed panel of another material won't let in light? and thats what I have been agonizing over, whether I would have enough light without that window splash back. Most people here have responded that the more light in such an area the better. But with this, as with your comment, comes the cons eg. dirt/privacy etc. Thanks for your thoughts

  • Robbi Zed
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Thanks Proket Window tinting & blinds. All makes sense! Windows can't be placed adjacent to the window splash back as this is a party wall to the next property. So for light, it's basically the 1420 window splashback, the 1800 slider on the same side as this splash back at at the end, the 3 metre wide stacker door. I will investigate the tinting film as this should reduce perhaps the glare and heat coming through as well?


  • siriuskey
    4 years ago

    what if you placed the fridge etc on the wall where the study is, the study could become a butlers pantry/large pantry. Your 2400 x 800? island could house both the sink, a new deep square/ sinks plus cook top, Our Island is 3000 x 1200 with large draws and power points on both ends. Seems a shame to not open up the wall to the outdoor side passage of your house, light and lovely. The skylight would certainly lighten up the space outside the bathroom. Is your house a single front or a duplex cheers

    Robbi Zed thanked siriuskey
  • PRO
    Protek window tinting & blinds
    4 years ago

    Hi Robbi,

    (and to those other readers )

    Just answering one of the previous comments left by Oskuee regarding cleaning window films compared to the suggested use of frosted glass due to scratching problems .!

    Actually , cleaning most window films are no different to cleaning glass .

    Glass will scratch just as easily as aftermarket films if one does not use the correct procedures/ technics and equipment etc.

    Most window films these days have a scratch resistant coating added to make cleaning far better and easier than those of years ago.( although the quality can and will vary between the various manufactured brands that are presently available )

    Plus one must also realise that there are cheap quality films around that will not last regular cleaning that lack both the added coatings /quality and or thinly applied that will limit the life expectancy of the product .

    All remember the old adage " never judge a book by its cover" -----------

    At least one can remove old and damaged films ; where's your stuck with damaged glass plus the high expensive to replace as well .

    Filming also allows one to change things if circumstances require it at a later date.

    Another factor to coincide is the type of manufactured glass in use or to be chosen ( as not all glass is the same ) plus the quality ( or lack of it )

    Much of the glass manufactured in Australia is now mostly been replaced with cheaper Asian made products .!!!

    I generally recommend a good quality rubber bladed squeegee and a mild washing up liquid and sponge and to keep them seperate for indoor cleaning of window films only .( best to avoid ammonia based cleaners such as windex unless the manufactures recommend it for a particular film-- same goes for" low -e " glass as the metallised coatings could breakdown due to corrosion with ammonia and other chemicles etc

    Some of customers I've come across just use dampen micro filiment cloths with water and fine the results good . (no chemicles required either )

    For those that would like a little more in depth info on tinting should read a couple of articles that were printed in the Australian printed magazine " The owner builder" Dec/ Jan 2014 & Feb/ Mar- 2014 .

    The info may assist anyone that has or thinks they may have a potential problem with there glazing system or just looking for ideas .

    Please feel free to contact me for further info . Gary PROTEK WINDOW TINTING & BLINDS ( TAS) .






  • Robbi Zed
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Hi Siriuskey. Yes we considered the pantry option but this was at the expense of the study nook which we really want and need. What do you mean by : Seems a shame to not open up the wall to the outdoor side passage of your house.? Do you mean not opening up where the window splash back is ? As there is a 1800 slider which does open up to the side of the house. It's a single front house - long and narrow just 3.5 metres wide in that kitchen/dining/living area. I suppose like all windows, including the sliding door and stacker door, the window splash back will need to be cleaned and maintained so I suppose it's no big deal to keep it and just clean it periodically. I know it will be nice having the light coming in rather than not so maybe I'll just keep it ???

  • Robbi Zed
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Thanks Proket windows and blinds. Yes, in terms of product quality, you don't know what you're getting half the time. The quality of the tinting product is paramount. My sister had her sliding doors done by a company called tint- a -car and so far she is happy with the product as it gives a slight tint from the inside looking out and a slight mirror reflection from the outside looking in- for privacy (from neighbors who can see in over their yard).

  • siriuskey
    4 years ago

    Hi Robbie, Your house sounds lovely, we had one some years ago. I agree with you that you should keep the window splash back if the kitchen is situated there, as you are already concerned about there not being enough light. Hopefully you can create a nice outlook through this window, not sure what you look at we had the brick side wall of the single front house next door until we painted it (which helped to lighten things up and added a couple of plants with over head beams to form a pergola between the buildings. cheers

    Robbi Zed thanked siriuskey
  • Koule' Krayon
    4 years ago
    I did a design recently and added a skylight and the energy rating of the home increased significantly. In saying that it also increases when you add in these fixed Windows. This is good. It demonstrates that more light increases the standard of living by reducing the cost of running the home.
    This is the most important factor to consider.
    How much does the house cost to run.
    Robbi Zed thanked Koule' Krayon
  • siriuskey
    4 years ago

    agree with koule'Krayon, I think it's important with new builds/additions to use Solar hot water etc if possible along with windows that give good interior light.

    Robbi Zed thanked siriuskey
  • Robbi Zed
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Thanks Koule' Krayon and Siriuskey. I think I will keep the window- better internal light and as you stated > increased energy rating / reduction in energy running costs. I've changed that 1800 window sliding door to a fixed panel window with the same dimensions. Only it will have a shugg window as one panel allowing it to be opened. I think this type of window will be more of a feature looking out from the dining table, rather than the sliding door which wouldn't really get used. With a fixed window I could plant up and have a nice feature outside as it's only a metre in width - see attached photo of my friends window overlooking a lovely pond and plants they just had put it. What do yo think?

  • siriuskey
    4 years ago

    Hi Robbi, Does the outside metre wide area give you external access from front to rear and what do you look at on this side, as I mentioned we had the wall of the house next door. I had thought that you could timber deck this area if it was step down or pave. That was also why I thought to place the kitchen on the other wall even though it shortened the passage effect, but could give you a wider kitchen dining are by using large sliding or more stackable doors opening onto this metre wide area. Perhaps even place the TV above the Fire and move the study to where the TV is, this would give you much needed space in the kitchen. Now look what I've done your question was about windows after all. Think your friends photo is great, will try to attach a couple of photos, cheers,

    Modern Pool · More Info

    These plants are Pleeched (trim off lower branches) to give privacy and more space lower down, that's clumping Bamboo at the end which is fast growing (I have the name)

    Robbi Zed thanked siriuskey
  • girlguides
    4 years ago
    Not too many Windows Kitchen would be dark without fixed window as no other window facing kitchen wall. Like your water feature idea. Fixed window more energy efficient than sliders
    Robbi Zed thanked girlguides
  • siriuskey
    4 years ago

    Your metre wide passage could be used as outdoor kitchen BBQ, if you had doors to it.

    Robbi Zed thanked siriuskey
  • Robbi Zed
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Siriuskey / Girlguides: that's a thought about the BBQ in that space but will need to conceal the utilities - hot water system and A/C units are there further down. TV above FP we considered that, but thought the TV would be too high? It would certainly free up enough space for the study nook though. Thanks for the photos- they look amazing.. I love the bamboo - what's the name of the other trees to the left of the pic? Definitely paving or decking up that metre wide space would be nice. I'll have to decide soon: (a)window splash back or just skylight ? (b) fixed window with shugg window panel or sliding door - both options 1800X2400 ?

  • siriuskey
    4 years ago

    Sorry Robbie, the article doesn't mention the name of left hand side planting but it could easily be one of the jasmine family, see the following, The tall and skinny variety
    The process of ‘pleaching’ trees
    (removing the foliage from the lower stem) has been done for hundreds of
    years, however, in recent years, many landscapers have began to pleach
    the stems of Bamboo. Pleaching the stems creates a negative space below
    the foliage that can either be left bare or under-planted with a
    creeper or low shrub.

    Bamboo is an excellent privacy solution for
    the modern home as it grows up to 6m high without the width that comes
    from most privacy plants, making it perfect for smaller block sizes.

    While
    the old running bamboo received a bad reputation for creeping and
    spreading into neighbouring properties, the new cultivars such as
    slender weavers (Bambusa textilis ‘Gracilis’) are what’s called
    ‘clumping’ bamboos. Clumping bamboos don’t spread like the old style and
    will only clump and thicken up directly around the base of the plant.

  • siriuskey
    4 years ago

    Would be a great space for your BBQ, especially if you had a door opening even perhaps if the glass splash back could be opening for serving. If you didn't need the overhead cabinets this could be a much bigger window/servery. Yes be careful about the height of the TV you see so many installed much too high, certainly would give you more space though. Just another thought, cavity sliding doors make a lot of noise, you have one for the bathroom they are really annoying much prefer a door. Agree that you would need to cover the hot water service. Go for as much light as you can.

    Clear Island Waters Residence · More Info


    Modern kitchen with stone island bench, feature lighting and glass splash back · More Info

    Hendra · More Info

    Display Homes in Sunbury · More Info

  • Robbi Zed
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    siriuskey thanks for the sliding door in bathroom tip. Yes, I think I will change it to a normal door. And the window with a servery type function is an excellent idea - i Hadn't thought of that. It really would be making the most of the space with in and out. More light it is!!

  • Robbi Zed
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Siriuskey, those kitchen photos are amazing - window splash backs with large windows/glass doors close to the splash back and looks good - doesnt look like too many windows at all.


  • siriuskey
    4 years ago

    Great Robbi, good to hear that you will change the Bathroom door, our 80's house w has a three way bathroom with 2 sliding doors, the bathroom is amazing but noisy especially at night, barn doors etc in other use are lovely.

    I designed a friends kitchen some 20 yrs ago with a splash back window, it was a good result, most important to make sure the outlook is worth it.

    Happy New Year Robbie, love to chat then to see how things go

  • Robbi Zed
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    thanks Siriuskey ! will def keep you updated. Happy new year to you too!

  • Chris Buckley
    2 months ago

    Hi All,


    I didn't want to create another post for a topic already being discussed.


    We've recently finished the construction of a house that has a lot of windows.

    Our builder has used low-e glass in a majority of the living area but our splash back is a very long window of toughened glass, un-treated.


    The amount of heat it lets in is bad- to the point where our kitchen sink is hot to the touch.


    With this in mind, I'm looking into either retro-fitting double glazing or using some kind of window film.


    For those of you who used window film, how effective was it? I'm looking into Ceramic, which filters out of of the heat generating infrared spectrum.


    Hopeing this thread gets picked up again :)


    Cheers




  • Robbi Mordi
    2 months ago

    Hello
    I ended up getting the window splash back in my kitchen. It’s double glazed (faces east) and the cooktop can get a little warm when direct sunlight hits but double glazing has worked for me - no tricky tints and good for sound as well as security

  • Chris Buckley
    2 months ago

    Hi Robbi,


    Thanks for getting back to me so soon.

    I'm currently getting some quotes for double glazing to see what I'm up for.. depending on cost, I may go with Ceramic tint first to see how it performs and consider retrofitting double glazing if it's not effective enough.


    The rest of our house doesn't have double glazing so it's purely for cutting out heat.



  • PRO
    Protek window tinting & blinds
    2 months ago

    Hi Chris
    Just following up your request for further info between double glazing and/ or filming single glazing
    Etc
    Your more than welcome to call me direct here in Tassy for a more detailed info. that’s not possible via this comments section .
    But just to highlight a few things for all interested readers .
    Firstly , it’s important to understand the “ Technical” differences between both single & double glazing ( particularly the different types of additives/ manufacturing processes etc that’s goes into making glass that can make a difference to how they perform technically and the ability to do what you want it to do and then theirs the choice of aftermarket window films .
    Whether the choice of an aftermarket window film application is considered to either single or double glazing to solve one or more problems, one must understand the pros and cons as to the window film manufacturers guide lines and their recommendations as to what type of film should be used or avoided considering the different window components and the different types of glass that goes into making the final window product .
    Secondly ; and equally important ; one must understand the differences between radiant heat and convection heat .
    Unless the glass is specially treated at the glass manufacturers or has an added solar film coating applied ( such as suitable window film ) when compared to clear glass and whether as a single glazed or a double glazed unit ; will NOT stop all the direct RADIANT heat through the glazing .
    Double glazing , or even triple glazing , works on the same principle like a thermos flask ; to reduce / slow down the transfer of CONVECTION currents ( hot or cold air temperatures ) from one side to the other .
    Radiant heat and convection heat are two different things and requires different ways to solve the problems .
    Double glazing is designed to reduce “convection” air temperature from moving from one side to the other , of the window . Other additional manufacturing processes can improve both insulation and heat reduction abilities .
    You mentioned a ceramic film and the infra red ( heat component ) reduction.
    I was wondering why a ceramic film was mentioned compared to say either a semi or fully reflective film choice !!!!
    Don’t get confused with all the advertising thats on offer via sales reps pushing their product as being better than other film options unless you fully understand both the advantages and disadvantages.
    One must compare apples with apples when comparing any technical data as many companies don’t all stick to a common standard tech specs making it difficult for customers to compare and often confused .
    The two main considerations when choosing a film ; particularly when double glazing is installed ; is the :- total solar energy reduction ( SER) and secondly the amount of absorption of heat ( SEA ) into the glazing .
    These are the two main factors I look at when heat transmission is a problem for a customer .
    The SER is the amount of the overall reflected away from the glazing and the SEA is the amount that’s is absorbed into glazing ( glass ) as this will effect how much increase in the overall temperature of the glass
    Particularly the panel which is tinted in a double glazing application which is normally the room side .
    The main problem if the glass temperature increases , it will increase the chance of glass breaking due to thermal stress .( gets too hot it will eventually break ) .
    One also has to take into account the quality of the glass , particularly most being made in Asia now .where quality may be an issue compared to Australian made glass .!!!
    Basically You need high SER with the lower SEA as an ideal choice .
    From my experience with over 40 years in the window tinting industry here in Tasmania that the fully reflective film I often use ; particularly on double glazing ; is a number one choice ; then secondly the less reflective MEP films neutral based film either in the suggested medium grade as generally the two films the manufacturers suggest in their guide lines
    As single glazing goes , between the full reflective or secondly the darker neutral ( a cross between the medium neutral and full reflective films )
    I’d be interested in see the data on the ceramic film choice for me to compare to out of interest .
    The three films I’ve mention are by no means the only choices but many other factors comes into play that need to be taken into consideration .
    Much more on the subject but hope this may offer some interest to discuss further .
    Protek window tinting & blinds (Tas)

  • PRO
    Protek window tinting & blinds
    2 months ago

    Just a quick follow up from my last comment
    This has just been forwarded to me this morning regarding some technical issues and hopefully clarify some technical terminology used by some suppliers to confuse customers on how one type of film may look better on paper over another ..
    Also , Just to add one thing regarding what I said in my last comment last night with with regards to the wording SER & SEA .
    Should be TSER & TSEA
    The “T” being the total solar amount .
    Anyone that would like further info please feel free to email me or call me direct .Gary c/o Protek window tinting in Tasmania .