a couple more ideas (food for thought)..are the internal walls single brick? probably..if so easier to remove. Suggest removing the wall between the ensuite and the small hallway/linen cupboard..move it to the newer expanded laundry. Infill with sound insulated stud wall. That will get you a slightly bigger en-suite without too much $$. I have removed these walls before and its not hard..just use an acrow prop for the roof. The stud wall is pretty easy too, I can explain in another post.

hold off on the garage for now..others may disagree. the reason is you may not need to move it. A nice new timber double garage door, infill the walls with painted weatherboard cladding (same as new W.I.R.) will smarten up the house. I'd do something with the driveway though..

now for the second new bit..add a lean to bathroom extension out the eastern side 1 or 2 metres will allow you to fit a nice full length bath, with raked glass ceiling. The toilet can go where the old bath is, laundry outside door will need to be moved, maybe put new laundry entrance where cupboard is, put storage in laundry shelves. linen can be washed dried outside, folded and placed back into shelving straight away. A bit of thought might need to go here, but can be nutted out..

The budget seems to be becoming limitless, it's OK to dream big but at the end of the day you have to be able to afford it.

And all of this to get a bigger Wardrobe!

Ensuite is big enough as is, concentrate on a bath in the family bathroom. You can always add a new garage and cover in part of the carport if you decide to later.

There's no point in putting plans into council for approval for any additions as the approval only applies for approx 2 yrs and then you have to re apply and pay again.

Yes it very easy to get carried away with so many great ideas from everyone. I think for now we should probably focus on the kitchen/family and main bathroom. However, a longer term vision will help to keep our options open in future. As far as the main bathroom goes I'm am struggling to find ways to fit in a larger bath without completely rearranging walls and moving the outside door.

Providing the Agents measurements are correct you should be able to fit a bath across under the window, a shower where the current bath is with a vanity between. The bath's in our 80'house are both 1600, and a good size.

Indoor courtyard (this had two glass panels and a door and on the other side where the photo was taken from had a hip height wall with glass panels that didn't open) which opens into the New kitchen replaced a horrible blue number and there was a wall across this side of the new island which elongated the passage way and made the kitchen small and quite dark in the corner,

I think you will need to gut the internal walls of the bathroom/laundry/toilet area, as you currently lose too much space in the little hall/foyer that separates them all. This will give you total flexibility in the redesign also. You could replace the external door with floor to ceiling window louvres (frosted if necessary), no other window in the room anyway, so would be a stunning addition of natural light/ventilation behind a free standing bath perhaps?

@siriuskey I love your high ceiling. It really opens up the room. Was it always like that or did you raise the ceiling?

@mel n I think you are right. I have redone the room calcs and we may be able to squeeze in a 1600mm bath without changes but i will not know until we move in to the house. The other option is to turn the bath sideways and put wash basin on left of door. This would allow a longer bath but is a bit of an akward setup. My other half is going to try out a few baths to see what size will suit her. Also we may be able to go a bit deeper to make up for the length. If all goes to plan we can leave bathrooms as is and just renovate which will save us a lot of $.

@andypat I hadn't considered using weatherboard to infill the garage. I'm assuming this would be a much cheaper option than full brick but I am unsure how the finished product would look.

yes weatherboard will look nice as there is a lot of brick in your home! It offsets it and provides contrast. There are some nice boards around..try james hardie website for ideas. As for your bathroom, I still think a modest extension, like a glass cube would be very interesting and exciting! An architect designed bathroom will bring your home into the 2010-20s.. also you will be able to get a much bigger bath in there, and lie in and look at the sky..pot plants etc to add greenery, very calming. A good design here will add $$ to your house if you decide to test the market later on. The missus will love it too..

When they strip a bathroom for reno- it's generally stripped back to framing. Then if there is water damage/rot, that too sometimes needs to go.

In terms of where you spend the big $$ with bathroom reno's.....fixtures, tiles, moving plumbing (with the number of inlets and outlets I doubt this will be an issue for you).....getting a carpenter to knock up new framing for walls would be negligible (and...always a possibility with water damage anyway) if you look at it that way.

If you were going to try and control costs, set budgets for your plumbing fixtures and tiles, shop around in sales (shops and on-line). Tap sets for instance can start at $50 for a budget builders-line....and go up to +$800 for high-end brands.Andy is right- your missus will love it!! On plan you have an opportunity to create a fabulous space, like a spa retreat bathroom (I can only talk for myself, but the current space wouldn't work for us except the separate toilet)

If you are keeping the bathroom insitu I agree with mel the Loo is wasting space as it currently is.

Join WC and bathroom. separate laundry entry with linen storage beside machine and tub.

You could have a bigger bath with shower over in the family bathroom as with kids it's bath's, and lets not forget the lady of the house, or a japanese style with bath & shower parallel to each other.

Add extra storage to kids play/study

Keeping kitchen in the same area.

Timber paneling for the garage would be perfect as your house like ours already has exterior paneling

Our house was designed by a Dutch Architect and came with the racked timber ceiling, we have plans to add a Mezzanine level over the dining for a study

A couple of options for bathroom. One with smaller laundry that would require stacking washer and dryer. Both would allow larger bath.

sorry Mr Goodie..still looks too cramped..go with an extension otherwise I fear $$ going down the plughole (pardon the pun)

if you plan to rearrange all the plumbing then the laundry and bathroom need to be swopped (despite the loss of the existing external laundry door) to have the bathroom opening in the hallway not off the new open plan living areas

Clever you drawing plans, much better than my sketches, I notice that
you appear to have a shower under the bathroom window which is not the
best position unless the window is tiled in.

I think that you
are trying to fit too much into the bathroom and should combine the bath
with shower over, this is going to be for a family and a shower rose
with a hand held are priceless for bathing kids/washing hair.I
also see that you are wanting to keep the toilet separate which is a
good idea, a rough sketch for you no measurements just possibilities. I
would try to keep laundry separate with external access, your laundry
will increase big time. I have also increased the size of the ensuite so you can have a bigger shower.

Ok Thx. Well at least we have now worked out that we either need to remove east external door altogether, extend or relocate the laundry to create space. I think many of you had already realised that though :)

Hi Goodie, another thought is to move the laundry into the old meals space which would also be a great linen/brooms etc area giving good access to the kitchen

@seriouskey I like that overall plan although still deciding which end the kitchen will work best. Some have suggested kitchen on the east to flow with outdoor area but there is slightly less room/options with layout. That is a nice idea to push that wall out in ensuite. Gives more room for ahower and possibly double vanity if that becomes a preference.

For me I think pushing the kitchen back into the dining which is a bit of a wasted space would certainly add much needed extra living to the family room, it also allows light to still come through that space by not closing it off

. Access to the Alfresco is still very good and especially if you add a stacking window in front of the sink with a servery to this area., this position also brings great access and use of the lounge.

Agree it will make the ensuite much better to include the linen cupboard, this would mean the opening into the vanity with the toilet by the window and the bigger shower at the other end, we just need to find extra linen storage

That ensuite wall is currently just a recess...prob to put shoes or something. I had considered pushing it out and using the space to enclose the toilet but givin its a small room its probably better to leave it open.

sorry, I disagree with these ideas...large open plan is not necessarily better...noisy/expensive to build/sometimes difficult to fill with furniture/ harder to heat/cool. Later on you may covet private spaces. Many modern homes have a mixture of open (communal) areas, with privates spaces. You have an open kitchen family space (albeit with a 1980's feel), you have an excellent north orientation, you have 2 living spaces - study/tv room and lounge room, as well as the family room. You have 4 beds, there are many good aspects to your overall design. I think concentrate on improving bathroom/laundry/ensuite solutions, update the kitchen and you are nearly there with this house. As I said before, extend the bathroom, keep the laundry as, just turn it into nice shelving and benchtop (either flatpack or bespoke), good design here will make it functional, look amazing, add $$ to your home, and give you a space you and your best can truly enjoy.

Hi goodie, just keep an open mind until you actually move in, you have a heap of suggestions to work with.

Andy it's OK for you not to like open plan, I wonder why so many are still doing it, there's a simple solution to those wanting separate spaces to escape to (used to be bedrooms/rumpus rooms/WC) doors of all kinds work magic. This makes otherwise small rooms bigger when needed cheers.

I agree there are pluses and minuses with open plan living and we have considered these. In the previous plan we would also put double doors across the separate lounge to create a private space and something similar across the study/nook as well and possibly a second door between kitchen/entry to reduce noise to master. However, these are all just still ideas and you have all given us a bunch of great stuff to think about. Obviously we still need to talk to builders to work out what we can achieve within our budget and this may sway us one way or the other.

no worries Sirius, there is a case for both. I think those trendy cooking shows in warehouses seem to be influencing kitchen/living size! Goodie: I suggest you consult a designer or architect first, then a builder, not the otherway around...good design may save you $$, may well add $$ and will give you a great space..

I would have a euro laundry either across a wall in the bathroom, hidden by cabinetry.....or in cabinetry in the last kitchen Siriuskey drew(which will be an enormous kitchen!).

In respect to the main bathroom. I think u need t choose. Seperate loo OR seperate laundry. I don't think u have space for both.

We had been looking for a downsizing option for several years and the relationship between open plan and privacy has been one we've been stuck on. Many new builds for townhouses and flats believe in a single, cramped living space, which is not suitable for us, either now, or when kids were at home. I don't like multiple eating spaces (apart from an outdoors extra one), so having "meals" areas and largely unused dining spaces didn't work for us. I prefer a dining room (or area) that is good enough for both everyday and entertaining. But our big need was for a separation between noise and quiet, ie a room for music and books that someone could escape to. We also realised that after retirement we're both home more of the time, so that separation is increasingly important. I'm noisy - I work with the TV on, I operate a loud sewing machine, I bash stained glass and lead. Spouse reads and listens to music. Balancing these needs is apparently not uncommon, according to friends, many of whom have opted out of downsizing because they can't find anything suitable. The house in this string is similar era and style to the one we're leaving, but we have a reasonable separation between family living and a "quite" room, not quite the concept Sarah Susanka outlines in her "away" room, (as many of her examples don't meet the noise test) but similar. Home of this original era tended towards very small children's bedrooms with an extra (shared) playroom, which tended to become a family room as children grew up. Clashing of music and TV often then became a problem. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, in considering how you want to change the areas around the kitchen (and yes, I'd open it up, at least to some of the space) you need to think carefully about HOW you prefer to live, how you spend your time when at home, where kids might fit in etc. Many of the ideas above are good to consider, but you first need to be clear about your own lifestyle and what you like.

Hi Goodie, seeing you mentioned that the ensuite is non existent perhaps something like this might fit. Also move laundry to ex meals space and include a kids cupboard toy space facing into the Kitchen/Family, this would give you a much bigger family bathroom cheers

Hi goodie

With respect to the suggestions and ideas put forward, some of the comments here are ignorant of the local councils, regulations and WA market and in some cases are just down right wrong.

In WA, garages are preferred unless there is no alternative in the set back than to have a carport. The main toilet does not go in the bathroom, unless you have a completely seperate toilet elsewhere (not with in the ensuite), the laundry is not part of another wet area unless you are doing an apartment, in a family home a bath in your main bathroom (not ensuite) is preferred...and then if budget and size permit, a second bath in an ensuite, face brick walls (80's face bricks are now viewed as dark, dusty and dated) are now rendered and plastered to remove the obvious 80's cues and living in the type of reno you are contemplating whilst it is done is ignorant of the realities of brick construction with wet trades around.

Again, with respect to the suggestions and plans provided, modifying a brick home with a stick roof is a different budget proposition to removing stud walls with truss roofs and clad external walls. You cannot just support a stick roof with tiles with an acrow without proper engineering and design as to the future support of that weight and the load bearing points (ie footings, wall thicknesses etc).

The reality of the Perth market with the budget you have proposed is that spending $15-$20k on an architect or designer is going to come straight out of your build budget with very little return in suburbia.

I suggest very strongly that (regardless of who you build with) that you would be better placed to make an informed decision by speaking with builders, as you have suggested, that can also design and help you achieve the result you're looking for taking in to account your overall budget.

I also suggest that, as others have said, some of the ideas being proposed are extending your budget to a level that will take years to recoup in WA....it is very easy for others to make suggestions that will a) have significant cost implications and b) not maximise your end result within the WA market when it is not their money being spent.

Our market here in WA is very different to other states and getting as close as possible to your desired layout whilst achieving the most "bang for buck" is what will give you your best overall result.

Cheers

can't beat local knowledge! in saying that, an architect or designer should know the rules. also it seems like WA is in the 1980s regarding planning if that is the case! As an aside, for those wanting to have a go - and shouldn't be deterred - when I was referring to an acrow prop, it was about taking out a very small wall...and of course you wouldn't just put a prop in, you put it in under supporting timber that spans the gap...

Thx guys. We still have a lot to learn and its very helpful to have insight into the WA market. Looking at many of the design/build type companies our project seems to be close to the minimum size (budget) projects that they deal with which makes me think we are unlikely to be able to achieve any significant structural changes. We will consider some of your great ideas and have a hard think about our 'must haves' v 'nice to haves'.

Two's company, I think we all understand that all states have their own standards and building codes etc. This is only a forum where we can all make suggestions to who ever posts.

Should we all now add that you should always speak to a builder/engineer/council and mention that no animals were harmed in this post, I think that's a given and find it's sad that some choose to make such a big noise about it.

"(80's face bricks are now viewed as dark, dusty and dated) are now rendered and plastered to remove the obvious 80's cues" I live in and love our so called dark/dusty/dated house and have absolutely no thoughts to make it a modern replica of every other renovation of the time.

Goodie we look forward to seeing what you decide to do within your new house with expert advice and within the size of your pocket, exciting times ahead cheers

Hi sirius

Im glad no animals were harmed in this post....

That being said, the fact remains however, that WA is unique in many of its idiosyncrasies in both the market and the methods of construction here. We are often called in to repair dodgy and illegal Reno work performed by misinformed home owners...given advice by very well intentioned people posting opinions. It's awesome to get feedback and ideas...but then there is the reality of it being completed properly.

Its not sad to point out the reality of a particular market as well as the "correct" way of doing things...it is responsible.

cheers

While I take your point about WA's construction etc rules and obviously amateurish renovations, I would like to say that like all eras, 80s housing can be beautiful or very ordinary. Like siriuskey we live in a 80s, architect designed house which I also have never had any desire to turn into something else. The bones of our house - and well designed ones from all eras - are worth retaining and celebrating. And getting rid of brickwork can be an aestheric mistake - depending on the brickwork. I've visited similar era houses where I couldn't live with the colour bricks for five minutes - we have two internal brick walls which are quite beautiful, the colours are like washed out Australian outback. We're selling at present and we've had an offer by someone who wants to "flip" by painting over bricks and getting rid of other 80s markers. We love the design of this house, with high ceilings and clerestory windows, with an outlook to integrated gardens from all rooms. It does need new kitchens and bathrooms, but truly the design and style is classic and well done. Making something meet this year's fashion is not always the best way to go.

Totally agree Jennifer so many have no regard for preserving our past, what's that line in a song "little boxes made of ticky tacky and they all look just the same"

We love our 80's house and like you we had a slight problem with those that wanted to watch TV, work at computers, read and cook. Our son resolved that beautifully, he bought a great head set which gave surround sound without all the equipment. So when we weren't wanting to watch TV together, the head set was used by the one wanting to watch. Hubbie for football,football, football, cricket etc. and myself when cooking and watching a cooking program. works a treat.

Good luck with selling, sorry to hear that the new owners don't feel and think like us cheers.

Hi Two's, haha, there's always going to be those who will do dodgy jobs and carry out unsafe practice even professionals, we sadly know from experience. But for most that post on this forum they have had plans drawn and are just wanting confirmation that it's all good or wanting others ideas to take back to their employed pro, I think that's a good thing, And we still love our original 80's brick & timber house it has sooo much character cheers

I did some research, and yes, I concede "ignorance" to WA's special regulations. I do have to wonder how much the 1911 Health Regulations are adhered to in respect to wet areas/laundrys though, given that Two's Company state that such suggestions are deemed OK for apartments. That wasn't referenced specifically in the Health Regs.

Having looked at Two's Company's original suggestions- with the exception of the bathroom, the design not too dissimilar to what others have suggest- pulling down internal walls of the existing kitchen (location of the kitchen irrelevant if budget was not an issue I guess....as would enclosing a garage). I'm doubtful the [all] internal bathroom walls are carrying the entire load of the house, to justify such a strong comment to us amateur posters.

Goodie- given Two's Company gave good advice around spending $15k on architects won't see you a return. Fair enough. The majority of people wouldn't dream of it anyway for a kitchen/bathroom reno. A qualified builder will be able to advise which walls are load bearing on site inspection- they will get up in your roof space and under your house (if possible).

This is a great forum for people to share ideas and experiences, without anyone actually inspecting a property, no one can give any formal/professional advice about your structure or the real estate market in a specific area. Styling is always personal taste. Some seek to preserve and enhance what previous eras offered, others will seek to "modernise". To make sweeping statements- that all exposed brick walls in WA are now rendered (really??), all toilets are seperate in WA (doubtful), and laundry's are not part of another wet area (how limiting), frankly sounds a bit ignorant in itself.

Hello sirius et al

There are always people who like 80's style homes and love them just as they are.

My comments about what is usually done here in WA with major reno's of an 80's style property are simply that, an observation of what is usually done in a renovation/resale. Those that take umbrage with that observation are clearly missing that in no way does it mean their taste is wrong or outdated, or that what is being done is correct from a 'heritage' point of view... it is just an observation of what is being done.

Indeed the most vociferous comments here are in defence of the 80's style....

Mel, if you read my original post again, you will note that we prefaced each statement with 'respect'. But as you have chosen to imply my ignorance I will respond specifically...

I didn't state that all exposed brick walls in WA are now rendered. That is a straw man argument.

My comments about removing walls come from both experience with this type of construction and the simple fact that we are a builder specialising in major renovations and extensions. You don't strip back to framing as you have stated as here, it is mostly brick....

I don't simply whack up an acrow and knock a wall out regardless of its length without understanding the loads and bracing of the original design, including the roof landing points, head height for new beams etc. Double and single brick walls with a stick roof whilst solid are not the same as stud walls/ brick veneer with trusses.

Regarding the laundry, you have misquoted me, and it is great that you have taken the time to look up regulations in order to confirm what I have said and critique me specifically.

The reality however is that in this case I was talking about your suggestion to "combine main bath/laundry/toilet and a bathroom laundry cupboard for future kids".

Placing a laundry within another wet area or a euro style is RESALE madness here in WA for a 4 bedroom home. Whilst it is suitable for an apartment where space is limited, in a home it is not. That is just the way it is here.

The Health ACT 1911 doesn't tell you that..... experience does.

The OP can go ahead and combine his bathroom etc as you suggest. Without talking to local real estate agents or builders experienced in the market he will find that to follow such advice will be a large mistake in WA. That has nothing to do with the load bearing walls in the bathroom area.

Other comments here are more than misguided and ignorant of the process for renovations and Building Permit requirements in WA.

We don't intend to spell each of them out as that would not be showing the respect that the forum is a place to share opinions and advice.

That said, respect is a two way street.

Cheers

Two's company..it seems a bit odd that it might be a 1980's house with a rafter roof with no exposed rafters? Anyhoo, if it's a rafter roof it opens up more possibilities for a cathedral ceiling..particularly in family room where it will make the space bigger without moving walls..

Just to confirm I have taken the great ideas presented here as advice only and have no intention to do some dodgy diy reno's. With the exception of a couple of quirky exposed timbers as you can see in my pictures there are no other exposed beams. As you can also see from the pictures there is a large roof space on the right (east) side of the house but the ceilings themselves are flat with a slight dip on the north wall. Based on my own personal experiences I would have to agree with Two's Company that there is a tendency towards rendered brick in WA (although there are still many exposed brick houses in my suburb) while double enclosed double garages are also highly desirable. I would also agree that toilets within the main bathroom and non traditional laundries may be considered unusual by many (but not all). Ensuites with toilets however are still very common. Also due to the nature of our work we would prefer the laundry separated from food/kitchen area. For a 4x2 house it is only around 155m2 excluding carport/alfresco which makes the rooms feel quite cramped, hence the desire to open up the family room. However, as Two's Company suggests we will need to first get a builder/eng in to check load bearing walls etc as this will undoubtedly affect what we can achieve within our budget. Having said that I still excited by many of your ideas and with luck hopefully can work some of them into the budget. Cheers all :)

Well said Mel, I don't find it necessary for everyone to be subjected to a lecture on WA building codes, that's for the owners of a property to sort out, and that certainly wasn't the question. Goodie we have seen some great input involving possibilities for your new home, apart from a couple all agreed to work within the existing house.

If I were employing any professionals for this project I would find those that are sensitive to and appreciate your 80's style house and work with that when making any changes.

Good luck to you Goodie, how did you arrive at that name?, look forward to new posts showing any changes you may make. cheers

I finally got this picture to land...its shows what can be achieved by extending the bathroom out by approx 1m..a very modest extension (glass roof not shown). look at the space! Massive deep bath! Bigger shower ! New laundry cabinetry and shelving around bath for all those things interior designers love to show off. Outside access from laundry retained (a must in my opinion). all existing laundry and shower/ vanity plumbing can be retained. New bath, toilet drain can be installed in the new extended slab, connected into existing drains outside the building (confirm with plumber). Bath and toilet taps can be extended through added stud wall..potential saving $$ on plumbing, which will probably be the biggest cost. Talk to plumbers, they will be able to advise savings, and routing of hot/cold water..I find plumbers very easy to deal with.... minimal changes to electrical wiring. talk to designers who can work with planning requirements for combined laundry/bathroom., show them some figures..worth exploring IMHO !

Hey sirius. Got the name feom my dad watching the Goodies when i was a kid. I'm not sure if it would pass the censors nowadays :)

Thx Andy looks fantastic but we can't extend east due to neighbours. Although maybe they won't notice...

Hi guys, We are starting to look at pricing up our reno and have decided to concentrate on the kitchen/family/dining area first as this is where we will spend most of our time. We are leaning towards option 1 but are a little concerned about the proximity of the kitchen to the front door (doors to be added to sunken lounge also) - thoughts? We are still open to option 3 but are worried given the generally small size of the house that the dining will become wasted space. It is also a bit of a squeeze to fit a reasonable size table and lounge into the family.

kitchen

dining area

bedroom

bathroom

We are also wondering who would be the best professional to provide advice as per previous post (without costing an arm and a leg) an interior designer?

Hi there Goodie, it still seems like you are struggling with the overall design, and use of rooms. eg in design 3 above you have the study/dining room. it can't be both, it's one or the other. A good designer or architect will help you resolve the design before building. An interior designer is for help with the décor - that is the easiest diy and cheapest, so I would recommend spending the money on an architect or good designer, get the design right. Later on if there is leftover money it can be spent on new furniture, soft furnishings etc, and can be spent over time as well. But get the design right, get the rooms right, right orientation, sizing etc.

Def option 1 Can have kitchen along back wall adjacent ensuite with island and sink in middle as looks lovely to walk into esp if get a deep sink eg blanco siligranit to hide any dishes not in dwm and there are kitchen designers with bldg skills/relationships as well as town planners come draftsman so go with someone like that Def not interior decorator as just google study length to get qualifications - if you can get it in 12 months without prac exp as builders have when architects and engineers take years then you’ll understand the value you get for money but for Reno a good kitchen/bathroom designer come builder relationship should work

You’ll probably have asbestos underneath all tiles wall and floor so will have to move out for few days while they are all removed so factor into your cost also plumbing all wet areas at same time cheaper - I’d definitely live in for a year and then revisit as by then you’ll know if plucking or electrical wiring also needs fixing as part of any Reno which may affect knock down or Reno decision