unless the house is not safe to live in you should take your time to identify possible options before beginning any renovation..as an experienced renovator with up to date knowledge of all the processes, willing and readily available contacts in all the necessary trades and professions i would expect a basic renovation including everything you described would take at least 12 months, assuming no surprises and everything going well (but. even a few days rain can delay your job by weeks while the trades are held up on other work)....you could hire an architect to take care of the whole process or try owner builder and subcontact the work youself, from palnning to completion, or divide the work into separate stages.....post some photos, an existing floor and site plan (showing dimensions, distance to all boundaries, direction of north and a wish list and invite suggestions about options and then you can clarify legal requirements with local council, have some preliminary plans drawn up and start collecting quotes...exciting, exhausting times ahead whatever you decide

Hi all, I was about to start a topic with exactly the same
name! Might as well reuse this one.

My question is similar but with a different flavour. We have
been in our house for long enough (too long!) to have a good understanding of
what we want and need – completely renovating the bathroom and the kitchen
(knocking down a structural wall), refreshing two bedrooms, replacing all
flooring and repainting all walls in our 4-bed mid-70s house.

We have engaged an architect and an engineer and got some
drawing from them. We have thought about the kitchen and have a clear plan in
mind (with the help of fantastic experts here on Houzz), but not to the proper
kitchen designer level of details.

We will not be going owner-builder, have no experience
whatsoever, and no time really, being full-time office people. We have spoken
to three builders in the last couple of weeks and they are (hopefully) now preparing
their quotations.

What will happen next, when the quotations are in? Apart the
obvious $$ difference, I understand it’s common and much recommended to ask the
builder if it’s possible to see samples of their work? Also, building permits –
how long do these normally take? Ours will be for removal of a structural wall
and extending an external window (downwards only, and only by 30cm).

With the kitchen, how does this work? When do we need to
engage the designer/cabinet maker, how long it takes to make cabinetry on
average? We are knocking down a wall in the middle of the future kitchen, does
it need to be down for the kitchen designer to take exact measurements or they
will be fine “seeing through the wall”? If we decide to source the appliances,
do we need to physically have them before the cabinetry starts to be is built?

We have never renovated, especially on such a scale, and I’m
feeling quite overwhelmed. I don’t even know what questions to ask. Any advice around
would be highly appreciated.

So many questions from another bird.

1) You actually can't tell a lot from seeing the builders previous jobs, it is more important to talk to the builder's previous clients, rather than see their homes. Many builders work to other peoples designs, so a bad design may have been well built, which is not your builder's fault. Many people aren't prepared to open up their homes for complete strangers as a favour to their builder. Would you be happy to show your completed renovation to strangers who may only be considering using your builder? More realistic to ask for referrals for a chat, and if you are lucky they may invite you around.

2) Make sure you understand about the price differences. Some builders who are having cash-flow problems may underquote to secure your project and stay in business. If it is too good to be true then it probably is.

3) Building Permits depend on where you are, if you are going through an independent building surveyor, if you are going through council, and how slow your architect is in making any amendments required by your building surveyor.

4) You will need to work out with the builder about your cabinetwork, and it will depend on your budget and how much you want to spend on design services. After discussions with your builder you may decide to remove the cabinetwork from the contract so you can engage a separate design and build kitchen company.

5) Good cabinetmakers will not start making the cabinets until they can accurately measure up the space where the cabinets are going into. They can do design work, and provide estimates, but they won't start actually making them until they have completed dimensional checks - so your wall will need to be down beforehand. The amount of time between wall demolition and a finished kitchen will depend on the cabinetmaker, and the efficiency of the the builder to get the other trades to work in a timely manner. Your choice of materials will also affect the timing - a stone mason will only start your benchtop slab once the base cabinets have been installed and a template for the benchtop can be made.

6) It is a good idea to have the appliances beforehand. You don't want to be switching appliance specifications at the last moment due to supply problems as the dimensional requirements differ slightly between applicances.

Finally don't choose your builder on price alone. Consider his communication skills, his project management skills, his time management skills, how many other jobs he is managing at the same time, and how local he is. If you are living in the home during the renovation it is a bit like getting a new flatmate for the duration of the build. I have had to tell a builder to watch his language on site when he has been managing his tradesmen due to the client's young kids at home.

A big, messy renovation like yours is a lot like child-birth. You can never tell before hand how easy it will be, there will some pain, but when it is all finished you will have a great result, and you will forget the hardships. There are a few good online resources to help you such as "Undercover Architect" to help take some of the mystery away with lots of pragmatic advice:

https://undercoverarchitect.com/

Best of luck,

Dr Retro

of Dr Retro House Calls

@Michael Smith - Where do you start? Similar and in addition to Dr Retro's comments, my advice as a starting point for any project is always the same: define your project requirements and nominate a budget. All decisions moving forward will derive from the balance of these two elements within your particular context. you need to refocus on the front end of the process, and set aside the backend construction for the time being...Since you have had no prior experience in this area I highly recommend you invest in experienced professional assistance with the process. It's a given that this type of project (involving building extension/structural adjustment etc) will require building approvals and/or potential planning approvals that require a process of design and development of professional documentation accordingly. Unless you have had experience in these types of things recommend you don't try and manage something like this unless you have a lot of free time, up for the task and are will to engaged/committed for a rather steep and potentially expensive learning curve. False economy in this area is a significant risk and easy trap to fall into for the inexperienced in this area. For something of this scale an appropriately selected builder will integrate the project construction management far more cost effectively that you can achieve independently as a newcomer. This general type/scope of project could be anything from 3-6 months in construction (depending upon the builder/circumstances/detail and whole lot of other factors) but you're getting ahead of yourself with this as first things first you need to establish the project scope and work through the process of design and documentation appropriately for any applicable approvals. If you're interested in further information please feel free to contact me directly - we can similarly service projects of this nature in the Melbourne area.....always keep in mind that there are different levels of professionals and you need to work out exactly what you require in this regard. Are you requiring higher level design assistance? Or do you just need someone to "draw it up" as you know exactly how you want it to be, and can get away with a drafting service.....questions for you to think about and work through/research accordingly.....

@anotherbird - this stage can be particularly challenging when you have designed and documented, and then are left on your own to sort through and compare the "apples and oranges" quote differences, and it's not straightforward. I think here it depends on the builder you select. An experienced and competent builder should be able to have some of the things you've mentioned integrated into their process such as the building permit, and also providing advice as to the construction scheduling and how the decisions of finalising the kitchen design etc will be coordinated into the job. Sometimes builders want everything designed and documented prior to starting, others are more flexible and have the capacity to work from contractual allowances and refer you to//utilise their regular tried and tested subcontractors/suppliers to pull it all together collaboratively and sequentially. My advice is trust your instinct with the builder and go with the one that you feel you can work better with, rather than the one who is giving you the best price...the project will ultimately cost what it will cost, and more often than not it's better to pay a premium for less stressful build process with an operator that is tuned into your particular circumstance and needs, rather than go with a guy who might be cheaper but is more about "smashing it out" for lower cost and putting a lot of the responsibility of coordinating fit-out aspects yourselves....

hope this helps

Best of luck with it all to both of you :) PD

within reason cost is the first thing you forget when you're happy with the results

Dr Retro, Paul, oklouise - thanks heaps for your replies, lots of useful information! We have learned over the years to never just blindly go for the cheapest option, in anything really. Considering that we are planning to keep the house for 15-20 years, and that either way the renovation costs will go well over $100K, we will definitely not be saving pennies only for the sake of minor economies.

To answer your question Dr Retro, I think I would be OK showing off my new kitchen or bathroom every now and then if I'm really happy with them, but I hear what you are saying and will just ask for referrals. We have already liked one of the builders a little more than the two others due to their enthusiastic approach and a few helpful remarks they made during their first visit to our house, but it's too early to judge of course.

It looks like we don't have much to do before the builders' quotes come in and we have our first discussions with those builders. Will definitely study the Undercover Architect website in the meantime, and most likely will be back with more specific questions later. Thanks once again and have a lovely weekend all.