ddaroch see my last post with the floor and roof plan showing that there would be no need for any box gutters just standard flashing for a gable against a flat wall with space for some sloping clerestory windows along the east west axis allowing light in from the north and south

going by the corner spar this is an old floor plan?

Hi Have to say that I have just spent an hour working to get a front entrance courtyard involved along with other major changes. As I mentioned I think this is an out dated plan and agree it doesn't appear to work with a block that has a reserve on it's eastern boundary. I think my brain has gone on holiday

Trent are you locked into this builder?

Metricon build in SA and they have a lot more floor plans to choose from

Question you asked earlier today, regarding the windows in kitchen and butlers pantry. These are on your west side, so yes they will get afternoon sun, not morning sun. In summer this will be direct hot sun. You will definitely need external shutters, trees or shade cloth to cover windows. If you have food stuffs in butlers pantry in cupboards under window, it will get hot, even through the bench top. As mentioned earlier this is the wrong design for this block.

I could break contract with our current builder, but might be up for another 3k to break contract. I love Metricon homes, but believe they charge a premium. The other plan, the Botanica 32, is one of the plans I really like from Metricon.

Why don't you have a chat to Metricon and look at possible floor plans and see what they would be prepared to do to get your business. Post the plans you like on Houzz first for comment be fore deciding.

Another design if flipped would be suitable. East side gets morning sun, and would overlook open space. West side is mainly utility area which can be closed off to keep afternoon sun out. Study and living areas would allow the north sun to enter home. Alfresco area could extend the full length of home. You could utilise a minor bedroom for wife's arts and crafts, until required for another purpose. Second lounge room has direct access to alfresco. This is an example of what is possible. If you have paid a deposit to the builder you have, do they allow a change of design?

https://www.metricon.com.au/new-home-designs/sa/botanica?category=facades&photo=botanica_ascent.jpg&floorplan=32

hey OKLouise, yeah I saw your post. But after I'd written mine - it takes quite a while writing a long winded post on a phone, with plenty of grammatical errors due to predictive text.

The point I was making about clerestory windows with that floorplan was that yes, you could do clerestories with a pitched, but the ceiling heights in the living areas are going to be huge. Or you could do a flat roof, & deal with waterproofing, box gutters etc.

Neither of which will be a volume product, & will be very expensive. In any case, finding a more suitable floorplan, like Dr. Retro has described, will give much better results, at far less cost.

Trent, if you're looking for a volume produce, without too many changes, start by looking at plans for corner blocks. These have dual aspects, facing both streets. This is what you need, plans that face both north & east.

As Dr Retro says, rarely used rooms to the west. That is, the garage, laundry, bathrooms. This will protect the occupied rooms from the hot summer sun. So you're best keeping the bedrooms away from this aspect. A U shaped house (Ɔ shaped in this case), should make it possible.

Thank you all for your support

If anyone has any more plans that would be suitable for this block I would love to see them.

Looks like I might need to start the process over - being a first home builder I rushed into the initial design. (Signed in February this year, but have been waiting for my block to be released)

Hopefully the process is not too long to start over again

Botanical 32 has no living rooms facing north. Also no study?? This design, in my opinion, would not be suitable for your land.

Trent it's not too late to do some research, contact others that build in your area armed with what you have learnt, not mentioning that you have already signed. See what they can come up with and then decide if you would rather pay the $3000 to be released and as mentioned see what others are prepared to offer. The corner block idea sounds good as well. Better to get the floor plan that suits the block, it will give you the best house and return.

dreamer We would have added a study and pushed the garage out. I thought that due to have windows available in the rooms from South, West and East (Rumpus & Family) it would have enough natural light?

Metricon has a great website which allows you to add and see the different choices and also flip the whole house which you wouldn't want to do as to maintain the garage in the North Western corner. have fun

Trent, using the Metricon design, during the day the summer sun would be above the home. So in the morning bedrooms windows would get the morning sun, then minimal through the day. There would be no direct sun into living areas. Then in the afternoon the sun would be on the living room west windows, and minimal light in bedrooms. There is no direct sun coming from the south. In winter the sun is lower in the northern sky. Therefore minimal winter warming sun would come into living areas, because living area windows do not face north. All the best with finding the correct design.

Hi Trent

Few issue i can see, giving a SA persons view.

1. The builder you have builds lovely homes, i'd stay with them if possible.

2. Angle vale is on the plains and gets very hot.

3. We will assume that there will be a home directly behind you. So while you have a great big backyard privacy could be issue.

4. Drive entry into block from road is restricted looking at estate layout.

5. While you only have to achieve 5star energy rating, you will need 6plus for heat reduction.

6. Yes roof design / style of building ( i know im going to get hammer for this ) , like most of us you build what you can afford to get maximum bang for buck and this is after all in an estate. But as you are finding out other options can be better.

My advice before you go any further stop take a breath, look at some great different design types. ( great site ARCHDAILY ) has the best new designs from around the world. We seem to build not for our conditions, so we don't get the best from our homes.

You have a 45m deep block, that gives lots of options. The reason architects and designers are hired is that they look at the whole picture of location / site and most importantly your wants and needs. than they start on the planning.

Dr Retro made some good points, as did others .

Hi Trent, this is an example of a Home designed for a block with front to the north. The courtyard design mean that you get northern light into it where you need it. It’s not necessarily the best design for your block, just an example. http://www.yourhome.gov.au/sites/prod.yourhome.gov.au/files/pdf/HousePlans/3BR+StudyFloorPlanCourtyardVersionNorthToStreet.pdf

Greenhomes Australia are a volume builder that have a large range of designs that cater to all types of blocks. They might be a bit pricier though. I know nothing about them other than they exist. But have a look at their floor plans for an idea. There are also some small volume builders that understand solar passive design that will work with you to find or even customise a house for your block. I know one in Melbourne but not in SA.

One thing worth considering is that a house that is well designed in terms of energy performance, which includes correct orientation, will be much cheaper to heat and cool, particularly if you go all electric (no gas appliances) and have solar panels. We are looking at saving at least $3,000 a year in energy costs in our new house. Factoring in that difference might mean you can afford to spend a little more on the house to improve its energy efficiency. It does, of course, depend on your financial situation and what the bank will lend. If you are already at the limit of what is possible then that’s not much help.

Everyone else has given some great tips/ideas.

Just a word about the study. It gets no natural light so probably is t somewhere people will want to spend their time. We had an internal study in a previous house. It never got used because it was dark and uninviting.

Wishing you all the best with your build. Having the reserve next door will be lovey.

Hi Trent, you ask about natural light coming into rooms. It is more about making sure you have the correct sunlight penetrating your windows when you need it. A warming winter sun, is completely different to a hot westerly sun in summer. The website that oklouise has posted, is an excellent read.

aiming to retain the original house plan this variation with central courtyard allowing north facing windows for master, family room, theatre, office and bedroom and east window for ensuite, one bedroom and dining room that can be screened with a small deciduous tree and/or see through external roller blinds when necessary, western kitchen has only a narrow splashback window for ventilation, laundry and pantry without windows and the west facing alfresco can be screened with external roller blinds and brightened with Solar Skylights that add light without heat (also useful for laundry and pantry)

there's no allowance made for extra thickness of external walls which depnds on your choice of building materials but the overall size is about 24m x 19m, similar in total size to the original house with a basic hip roof with 60cm eaves, narrow front verandah with parapet to minimize excess shading of north window to theatre and front door and i've widened the side driveway for occasional drive through access with space for a drying area and tall narrow shrubs for western shading and a future pool in the backyard (or the courtyard?)

Thank you so much oklouise will go back to Dechellis with this and see what we can come up with

Dreamer posted this floor plan on another thread which I think is really good. You could move the garage across to allow for a mudroom and study and access to the rear.

So much engagement from the Houzzers, super. I’m just curious, why are so many building plots in Australia are such a long thin shape. I’m in South Africa and our plots (we call them stands or erven) are shorter but wider, much easier to place different designed houses and most importantly to face the house the right way for optimal sun, heating and cooling. In my experience one of the most important factors is that the house faces right, it directly affects quality of living.

Elizabeth, great question. I suspect it is so that developers can maximise profits. Narrower block mean they need to build fewer streets in an estate and can maximise the number of blocks they sell. And they give no thought at all to ideal orientation. The volume housing industry goes hand in glove with this approach. Poorly designed, poorly sited houses. It’s all about maximising profits and unless consumers demand better or governments regulate for better outcomes it will continue.
There are some bright spots with some estates designed so that every block allows for ideal orientation, but they are few and far between.

Yeah, genkii is spot on Elizabeth. All about less infrastructure per unit area. Maximising developer profits. With no though of the occupant's comfort, or the increases energy needed to heat/cool poorly orientated houses.

This one's actually far better than many blocks. It's quite large, has a nice eastern aspect also, & at 20m it's northern frontage is actually regarded at quite big for a suburban block.

A local block here was quite recently subdivided & redeveloped into two narrower blocks. It was a long, narrow block, 60m x 15m, with a northern frontage. So became two extremely narrow blocks with 7.5m frontages. Both with 0.9m side setbacks, narrowing the dwellings even further. Very tough, poorly orientated blocks, very expensive too (across the street is lakefront, & only 200m to the ocean too).

One of the block's was bought by a builder, who owner built a home for his family there. He built a house setback from the carport. Front courtyard, single level at the front with north facing clerestory windows, double level behind. East facing clerestories running most of the length of the build, to increase privacy. Another courtyard further back, to increase the light to the rear of the home. Due to the restrictions of the block, the the house would be far from perfect, but it would quite light, & quite private. So made the best of a bad situation.

The neighbour built the biggest garage possible at the front, a large covered north facing balcony on top of it. Would be a dark, cold house.

I think the size of the block isn't crucial it's the design that needs to step up to the challenge, cookie cutter developers need to change the way they design their houses to suit these blocks.

I agree that with cookie cutter builders we usually get poor results, with no thought of orientation. A well designed build can overcome site restrictions.

Like this very well designed home in Manly. Very narrow block, overshadowed by it's northern neighbour. Here the designer chose an "upside-down" house, with north facing clerestory windows, to introduce light in the living areas & increase privacy.

35 Kangaroo Street Manly NSW 2095

https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-nsw-manly-128750534



However, here compromises have to be made - not everyone wants to live in an upside down house.

The block SHAPE plays a very big part in what is possible.

A narrow 400sqm block (8m x 50m) really restricts what's possible no matter what the block orientation is. With either very little northern aspect (for a northern or southern frontage), or a high probably of being overshadowed by a northern neighbour (for an western or eastern frontage - as is the case in the Manly example above).

A square 400sqm block (20m x 20m) greatly increases possibilities in EVERY orientation. For a northern or southern frontage the home can stretch across close to both side boundaries, introducing a lot of light, & privacy out back. While for eastern & western frontages the home can be positioned close to the southern boundary. Again, introducing a lot of northern light.

I agree Double D, an 8 x 50 can be very restrictive, blocks of this size are generally inner city and need specialist design.

Grand designs Aust.last night showed just that an upside down house on a small corner block.

Though I wouldn't say it's just inner city. The above one is suburbia, Manly, by the beach. The one I described in the earlier post is Narrabeen, also Sydney's northern beaches.

I think it happens anywhere the developers can get away with it. Unfortunately many councils appear to be ok with this, looking at their planning restrictions, or lack thereof. There's quite a few similar blocks in the surrounding streets of Narrabeen, all 7.5m x 60m, crazy.

Yeah, it was a good episode of Grand Designs wasn't it. The corner block certainly captured great parkland views on two aspects.

You have to consider that these are all old suburbs not newer developments that I'am targeting and that's what mostly gets posted on this forum.

True. I just wish councils wouldn't let these blocks be subdivided in such stupid ways.

orientation and block size can be managed by good design but can't help be disappointed with the expensive houses designed for looks instead of comfort and ignore the local micro climate.........having lived in Narrabeen and Manly the grand open plan designs are OK mid summer but salt spray and ocean breezes can make homes damp and miserable in winter and i think that the upside down house sacrificed privacy for upstairs living that will be a strain as the family ages

The real tragedy for Sydney is what is being allowed on Sydneys Upper North Shore which connects with the M1 out of Sydney. No up grades to infrastructure' ie: roads/rail but re zoning of beautiful old properties so that they are bowled over and replaced with high rise apartment buildings. Bringing many more residents into an all ready overloaded infrastructure, that's all going out west.

The upside down house is quite exposed but so on purpose to take advantage of the lovely outlook in the heart of exploding sprawling Sydney. I don't see it being a problem for these people considering how much was spent to have their Architectural designed house, I'am sure that they will have the latest electronical window fittings which all the up market new builds in our area have, lucky them.

Too true. No wonder so many people are complaining about immigration etc. When really the problem is poorly designed developments & a lack of infrastructure. I have no problem with higher densities in some areas. When it it well planned.

eg. Terrace housing, overlooking communal green space. Just like Kevin McCloud's own "The Triangle" project.

Instead of this horrorific concrete jungle by AV Jennings, in Kenmore, Brisbane.

Back on topic for the OP.

Trent, my plan, along with Dr Retro's I believe, was to have the courtyard facing west, not east (as some of the plans above have).

This crucial difference means that the living areas will now get northern light, as they are not obstructed by the garage.

Here's what I mean. Apologies, I don't have the drawing skills of some of the posters, (my first time drawing on glass), or the skills to lay out an efficient floor plan like oklouise & others.

It's basic, but gives you the general idea. Note, the summer sun is harshest from the west (& east), while the winter sun is warmest from the north.

The homeless show on SBS this past week needs urgent management, how can it be so bad in our Lucky Country, illegal immigrants get accommodation why are so many Aussies sleeping rough 131,000 Australia wide.

While I agree with you about the homelessness problem. I will point out that there's nothing "illegal" about arriving in a foreign country, & claiming asylum, whether that be by boat or plane. No matter how many times Peter Dutton says the contrary. Most of Australia's illegal immigrants are actually visa overstayers from the UK.

But let's leave that discussion for another time. This thread is about designing Trent a great home!

Yes have to agree to disagree, Look after the ones that are already here first. Trent looking forward to what you decide to build

ddaroch i would be very pleased to draw up your suggestions but every site has individual restrictions and local microclimates and, reading back throughl Trent's comments, it clearly states that the estate doesn't allow the garage on the right/west of the block ... my last offering on 15/8 has more northern light, uses as much of the original design as possible and we have to work with what's available ...a recent addition to my own home deliberately has south west facing corner windows that provide garden views and winter sunshine (with suitable management for summer overheating)...without those windows we would have lost the best aspect of the available space and the room would be unusable ...we need to be less rigid with interpretation of Solar passive Design and be more creative with our compromises...and that's what professional designers should be able to provide

Oklouise, I think you meant to say. Does allow garage on right/west.

thanks dreamer, nice to know my comments are being properly monitored but hopefully my correct meaning is understood and the garage is not allowed on the left/east

I haven't seen any suggestions for east. And your comments are always worthy of a read. Thanks.

Days like we have in Perth today, are why we orient our homes in the correct direction. Ah....that wonderful winter sun.

Just out of curiosity - for those that have built before when you get to your HIA contract did your builder itemise each items. (i.e upgrades) to share individual break down costs?

Hi Trent, the HIA contract we have, showed the full amount plus gst. Then amount that was due for each progress payment, eg: slab down ground floor, plate high ground floor, slab second floor etc. We also received,from builder, Final documents and working drawings, which included a break down 'variations to contract'. Including such things as electrical upgrades, door hardware upgrades, final charge for earthworks. Then a complete addenda specification, showing all colour, kitchen, bathroom etc choices. Also all finalised drawings.