I have worked out a rough idea without extending the house as you have been there 20yrs and the boys may only be staying for another 5 yrs, you won't need all that extra space. Instead of an internal courtyard I suggest a glassed gallery from the entrance to the family room, I will find photos to try and explain this better but because you are off I wanted to run this by you. The boys could also have a bifold area off the family. cheers, have a good one

The Gallery would be similar to this, you can install auto opening and closing windows into this, you would also need auto Velux windows in both bathrooms.

This is a more completed idea, working within the boundaries if the existing house, it doesn't have to be big to be beautiful. In a smaller space you can concentrate on quality fixtures,finishes like Velux opening windows. The boys have a Japanese style bathroom and the master has a Dressing/study/parents retreat with french doors opening onto it's own terrace and view. All bedrooms show QB's, The pocket/sliding doors are all full height in either solid or metal and glass. I have just noticed that the garage is being extended to the front?, it won't be problem as it would just mean a larger terrace with a view off the living room.

ah yes, the typical dilemma - "To go up or to go out? - That is the question" ;)......

Completely agree with Retro - it totally comes down to money....the thing is here that both options are going to be expensive & an invasive alt & add proposals.....and there are many issues with both options posted....

It's like there are fundamentals there not being addressed, such as taking the opportunity to better connect the internal with the external spaces and the natural lie of the land, opening it all up more/making it feel really more spacious....and also properly improving the internal functional zoning/separation with 3 older kids.....and also getting the scaling right ....both kitchen options are arguably well under-scaled for a house expansion of this proportion and how it is going to function........internal courtyard ideas all fine & fun but you have to get the fundamentals right in order to pull off those types of ideas...and as for going up just for a master bed & bath, well for the costs of doing that arguably again probably better ways of achieving it to maximise the investment or doing it more cost effectively with a better outcome, such as development of a western wing out the back with a beautiful rear/north aspect.....

this stuff is our bread & butter - we do feasibility exercises on scenarios like this to stack up multiple options/configurations with properly applied accompanying construction cost projections to each so you can quickly see what is possible and what it will cost........

IMO neither of these options is hitting the mark...they're missing the opportunities, but still costing a lot, make sure you don't fall short be a fabulous result and fantastic investment.....but it's ALL in the design. I've posted this before but as an example this demonstrates how design at a certain level can simultaneously negotiate context, requirements and maximise light quality and ultimately greatly improve the living experience ...

The logical approach for something like yours is often less invasive renovation coupled with a carefully considered extension that maximised bang for buck and property value.....

If you're interested in hearing about how we professionally service the design process you are trying to work through here, please contact us directly - we can provide remote & ad-hoc consultation

Kind regards,

Paul Di Stefano Design

admin@pauldistefanodesign.com

www.pauldistefanodesign.com

Hi siriuskey,
Just a quick note before I hop on the plane to come home. thank you so much for your input. It's so true that it doesn't have to be big to be beautiful. The use of glass roof is fantastic.
I was wondering if there was any way to bring light in the house other than building a internal courtyard which we were advised it'd cost approximately 1/4 of our budget. I love the terrace outside the parent retreat. I also love the space saving Japanese style bathroom. It makes sense being Japanese myself!
I will have a look at the plan with my husband once I get home and see what he thinks. I'm sure he will be wowed.

Many thanks!

Good to hear back from you, I'am envious if you are returning from Japan one of my favourite places in the world, enjoy the flight, cheers

Thanks Siriuskey, OK Louise and Paul. I am safely home now.

I like your both of the proposed plans and took value from the counsel about 2nd storey extension from Paul.

Siriuskey - I see that there is benefit in having the laundry outside the kitchen (blocks west sun & an extra sink etc. near the kitchen) but is a more difficult construction as the deck is 2.5m off the ground. Is there merit in moving the laundry to the opposite side of the deck near the bedrooms (this removes it from involvement in an existing steel pergola and makes it closer to all 3 boys bedrooms)?

OKLouise - the max complying development extension of existing Master Bedroom is 4.5m. I am not sure what chance of getting a DA which encroaches the 14m boundary exclusion would be. So - the alternate is to shrink the proposed study to a nook with reduces courtyard. What are your thoughts?

We would like to jointly pursue each option to see what our relatively moderate renovation budget will allow.

the plan could still work with the 4.5m added at the front with a small courtyard but windows for ens and wiw would be overlooked by the other bedrooms and would need extra care and there's a two options for the laundry with access off the back deck instead direct of external access

Welcome home, the laundry can be moved, I did have two thoughts for that space was a WIP which included on out door kitchen/servery, I will draw what is in my mind. cheers

The Laundry has been moved next to the boys bedrooms plus a linen cupboard.

I have also played with including the deck as part of the family room using wide Juliet style glass doors

I'm in awe of you oklouise and siriuskey for your talent and your generosity spending time to draw the plans for us.
My husband loves oklouise 's plan extending front. He likes the fact the master is like a separate dwelling. I'm happy with either but siriuskey 's plan within the existing blanket sits well with me. We will have a look at both plans more closely and discuss what's best for us. I guess it comes down to the cost in the end.
Thank you so much again. We will let you know what we've decided soon.

the extension at the front would also allow an opportunity to have a fresh new look for the front of the house but what about adding a better car space under the new living area and use the original garage as a downstairs rumpus room and/or knock through the tiny flat and create a more generous self contained flat for an adult child i'm also wondering if you should consider rearranging the existing laundry and study into a combined laundry pantry and avoid restructuring the two rear bedroom or adding any extra external doors or stairs

Looking forward to what you you come up with within your budget. One important consideration that I forgot to mention is that with a family of 5 adults the parking for 5 Cars is really important.

I have played with the entrance to the master suite to give it a more private separate entrance. cheers

Yes! Yes! oklouise.

I was wondering if we could create a man cave and mud room/storage on the garage level with extentoon of the front. If we do that we may fee up the family room. Is there a merit creating a guest bedroom or would it be too crowded?

The exsisting little studio actually has a kitchenette that we installed not long ago and intend to keep it as it is.

Thanks for the updated plan, siriuskey. With a long driveway we have there is enough room for 3 cars outside the garage.

Much appreciated.

You earlier on mentioned keeping the downstairs as a possible rental, are you still considering this or do prefer a rumpus/man cave instead, not sure if there's room for that plus a 2 car garage.,. Can you provide the height of floor to ceiling under the house, thanks

to investigate options for the garage level we need dimensions of each separate space including the small flat and ceiling heights... please explain the front and cellar stairs (how deep wide high etc) also advise what the floor and walls are made out of including the wall between the small flat and the original garage and show the position of windows and doors,,,

Oklouise I’ll get on it with major ing.

There is no stair in the cellar by the way. That’s a proposed staircase.

Thanks

seriuskey,

The flat itself I want to keep it separate from the rest but possible extension of living area and terrace will result the extension of garage space.

The majorment coming shortly.

thanks,

The Garage is cement render over brick with concrete floor. The flat has a ceiling height of 2400 but the common garage wall height is 2060.

Floor plan attached with dimensions.

the 2050 ceiling is too low for a habitable room but already makes a useful garage and should be ok to use as a mancave but what about the ceiling height under proposed new living area? unless the ground slopes down at the front and or the extension in front of the old garage is raised there will be a problem with new downstairs ceiling height that needs an on site inspection to determine options .... what did your designer suggest about the space under the proposed new living area??

Just adding my updated floor plan using existing space with the addition of the Master terrace and laundry. The kitchenette down stairs does that service a pool, the space that now has the new kitchenette could become a bedroom with ensuite, I will draw that for you.

My rough idea of what could be a downstairs flat, the living area ceiling is 2400 while the bed space is only 2060 so I have included bifold doors that can be left open or removed to include both spaces. Not sure of measurements for the WC bath area but you could have a Laundry cupboard. Internal access from the garage into the house and from the flat if needed depending on the use.

Hi OKLouise and Siriuskey, thanks for your fantastic work.

In response to the height issue in the garage - we could excavate but this would require stabilising of the foundations and potentially create drainage issues as it would be below the ground level outside. The land falls away a little in front of the existing garage.

I would like to refocus on the overall floor plan for a moment.

In the revised okLouise plan - study was moved from behind masted BR to near laundry, the hall and entrance way was removed. Is there a way to restore this so that the entry is not directly into the living Room & Master BR does not open directly from the living room?

We would also like the new terrace to extend as wide as possible into the DCP permittable area - 4.5m from the existing Master BR. Potentially to achieve the restoration of the hallway, we could allow the side terrace to be removed.

Your comments appreciated.

bigger front deck without the side deck but will need some windows or skylight into the old living area and also added some other variations to consider...some of the dimensions are inconsistent so an on site inspection by your designer will need to comnfirm possibilities...the roof over the new master suite is quite straightforward to match existiung but the roof over the new living area would be easier as a simple skillion roof

What is the distance from the living room to the boundary and what is the set back

Hi oklouise and siriuskey

Thank you for yet another updated plan.
Prior to your involvement we were stalked and somewhat frustrated. You really helped us regain the excitement for this project giving us ideas and options.

Oklouise, The distance from the boundary to the master currently is 18.5m. The CDP set back is 14m from the boundary but there is a provision for 25% of the building to encroach by up to 2m. This is further restricted by the the average of the two adjoining properties which limits encroachment to 13.5m from the boundary. So it's safe to say 4.5m from the master.

but whats the distance of the living room terrace to the side boundary

Sorry meant stalled... not stalked.

It is 2.7m from the terrace to the boundary on the side.

Some garage/mancave ideas for the boys in the house.

I have added direct external access to the laundry which will also give great access from the pool to the bathroom (should have extended the deck on this to allow access to the large deck) and changed the music to the gallery which I think is a great place for it. I am wondering why 5 bedrooms?, the Flat/studio down stairs as I have already shown, is perfect for this to accommodate extra guests giving them their own space instead of being squashed in with everyone else.

Yes it would have two ceiling heights but allowing for Bi fold doors between both spaces would give it a more light and open feel. I was telling a friend about an Aunt who lived in longueville that did this, their house was on a battle axe block with access to the water front. They filled in under part of their house to add a small rumpus at the 2400 height, then a good sized study (for a Professional Man) a bed room and box room all at a lower ceiling height, it was a beautiful functional space. cheers

with 2.7 m from the terrace to the NE side boundary is there any option for building closer to the boundary on that side..what is the distance to the other side boundary? could the new living areas and master suite be wider than the existing house....would there be any advantage to see the view to push the new living area closer to the boundary? ....some photos showing the view from the existing living area and the front of the house and front yard would be useful to better explain the available space

I asked about the side boundary for possible single car garage with terrace on top extending from the front to the side of the living area with a Vergola pergola over the top. Going by measurements the double garage is very narrow and perhaps it would be better to add the extra single garage to connect to the existing double garage with the wall open between both garages. This would allow easy parking for the cars with space for Golf cart etc. If there's 900 set back that would only allow 1.8.

The other option was a possible set back style garage at the front, to match with your house facade

Similar to the above but with flat roof and terrace on top

Stepped back garages similar to this, double on the left and single to the right

My suggestion for adding a single width garage to the side of the house with the wall between this and the double opened up so it's easy to get in and out of the car. The extra terrace above would also have access from the dining room. This terrace would need a Vergola Pergola to control westerly sun.

all good ideas, but ultimately (& always) the site & surrounding context needs to be fully clarified/understood in order to design compliantly on a number of levels, such as to avoid potential amenity impacts to neighbouring property like overshadowing, overlooking and building heights within proximity to boundaries.........

Still advise/suggest from a cost/value for money point of view, that less renovation coupled with a strategic cleaner extension will yield higher overall value outcome for your property and home on a number of levels...

I'm curious though, considering this particular home dynamic being described (adult kids) as to why the potential for extension to the rear is not being considered in the mix? It would make sense from a point of view of achieving separate zoning.... It's always about stacking up options based on achieving requirements, and of course the design solution pursued will ultimately be defined/steered by personal project priorities of the Homeowner(s)

Siriuskey
I like the laundry near the boys bedrooms away from the living area. It's great to have doors straight to outside. The amount of washing we do is just enormous and I need an efficient well located laundry. I love that you got rid of the gloomy hall and made master bigger. The music nook in the gallery would look fabulous with glass roof.
Not sure how much we can built to the side but both neighbours seem to have only about 1.5m to the boundary. The house on the high side of our house recently built a garage right on the boundary.
Love the garage doors and polished concrete floor! Can't spoil the boys that much. They'll never leave!!


Oklouise
The side demention is 1.45m to the boundary. It gets wider at the back with 2.4m. I don't think we can go wider on the bedroom side. On the other side, I loved your idea of the wrap around terrace which had to be removed to accomodate the entrance hall. Maybe we can bring that back if we go wider?
We have next doors brick wall view so block it some sort of screen. I have attached some photos on your request. Hopefully they are of any help. It's still mind blowing that you can come up with the brilliant ideas without seeing the house.

It's hard to know just what to suggest as Paul said without seeing the house and neighbours positioning. I was also wondering if you could go to the boundary on the garage side to add the single garage which could have access at both ends of the garage so as to access the rear of the property, is there a pool at the rear which I remember seeing "pool" on one of the plans.

With the a single garage approved to the boundary with a flat roof it would be really worthwhile considering the terrace on top off the dining which would make that space more open, also how wide you would be allowed for the terrace. Possibly some screening for the neighbours, without knowing if they would be overlooked/shadowed , but certainly the Vergolla Pergola would be amazing. This first photo shows Vergola being used over skylights to control light and heat.

Sorry Just noticed that you had posted photos, it's a lovely house, it looks like you could do the terrace on the RH side from what is showing in the photo, you could possibly end up over looking the neighbours yard without screening

Hi Paul,
We don't want to lose the lawn for our small dog at the back.
The other half is pool and paving. We are quite a bit higher than one neighbour on our right. The deck already is quit intrusive that we are in need of some sort of screening on the side. But we should be more open minded as to extending to the back and the lawn area smaller??

it can get really (unnecessarily) complicated (& more expensive) when you are dealing with building to boundaries, heights & lengths on boundaries and overlooking issues...... I think it's important to keep an open mind, consider the options and bring it back to first comprehensively clarifying the requirements and the relevant constraints & context - the specific solution is only possible to resolve/design once all this critical project information is clear and defined.......otherwise you are approaching this somewhat too narrowly focused and considering potentially non-viable ideas, as opposed to more effectively working towards a viable and balanced outcome for your project...

It's really tricky to advise properly on these types of things on a forum from our professional position, since certain critical information required to be clarified in order to properly make design decisions, is understandably private, and inappropriate to disclose publicly

it's easy for us to make suggestions when we don't have to consider reality and, as always recommended, you'll still need professionals to make sure that these ideas will work on site but, looking at your photos there's no advantage to increase the view of your neighbours' side wall but perhaps you could add the new entry stairs on the driveway side and make the garden in front of the new master suite another private courtyard and also allow more width for the new garage under the front extension?

Paul,

My experience with building to a boundary for a garage was amazingly straight forward after discussion with our neighbour and plans to Nth Syd council, we lived in Cammeray. The new double garage was designed and built to look like it had always been part of our Federation House from which you could enter directly into the house.

Bisongirl

,I'am guesiing that the pool is on the left of the rear yard and the grassed area on the Right. would you actually have something that shows the block with your house positioned on it.

You will notice above where I have already suggested including the deck as part of the family/kitchen.

I offer help and ideas to those that ask for just that so that they can then take these ideas back to their chosen local Pro to finalize their floorplan that they now feel far more involved and happy with.

siri - re boundary construction it of course depends upon the specific context - the issue in this case is the site fall and being on the high side there could be potential issues of building heights from the NGL on the neighbour's side....my comment was also in respect to considering a terrace structure above a close to boundary structure and complexity that would be thrown up with screening and structural offsets etc.....and this is sometimes worth pursuing where space is tight, however I'm anticipating here there is a fair bit of room to move and I'm guessing (an educated guess based on limited contextual information provided ) that a more cost effective/simpler option on a number of levels will be to (a) keep things off the northern boundary and (b) minimise renovation scope and consider a strategic rear extension that focuses on master bedroom zone and cleaning up the main living zone - if the majority of the existing spaces are retain structurally and limit renovation to cosmetic upgrades then the budget will stretch a lot further but net result is a more valuable property - and a more cost-effective value adding proposal that on paper is more likely to be accepted for finance.........this is always a integrated numbers game/exercise

We're working on a job at the moment that we crunched numbers on various options & scope/configurations, but the two "shortlisted" of them were very similar - one slightly more expanded and pushing out to boundaries, the other more tightly disciplined, simpler and deliberately keeping building extension off boundaries. Whilst both of the shortlisted proposals essentially accommodated/covered the client's requirements outcomes, we estimated approx $100K accumulative difference one way or the other........

Paul

it appears by the floor plan that the house might have already undergone an earlier extension, it would be good to up date this area. The one thing that has jumped out at me is that there has been no mention of a Media room which is refreshing. Everyone seems to want to build Mac Mansions which only ends up rewarding those in the trade

Oklouise, siriuskey and Paul,
Thank you all for your valuable contributions.
We will reflect on the best direction for our renovation.

Best regards

another thought for creating a separate entry foyer without reducing the maximum width of the new living area and allowing for more width for a double garage underneath...best of luck with your choices

Dear friend- The original central courtyard concept is the far superior concept; the intangible value and beauty of the internal court on light, space and the calmness ( serenity) that such spaces bring - is one that is worth pursuing. Be very careful who you take advice from regards design . Speak to a registered architect to assist. Ibrahim Conlon Registered Architect MArch

Wow! I love this house. Calm and welcoming with wide steps leading up to the front door. Gorgeous.

All of the above, The entrance makes a beautiful statement, WELCOME with an Asian theme, your existing front planting would be perfect. I don't know where it is but has obviously under gone a renovation of a similar period house as yours