JE C I have managed to remove/lose your actual working Plan and now only have what has been posted.

The master suite that I suggested would really add value, you could move the joining door to the other side of the fireplace, or you could have a door each side which would look lovely. The parents retreat could also be the study Home office, with doors to close off the dressing & ensuite area for when you had any clients call by. I think that even as it is you would need a skylight in that area.

The other thought, why don't you run a study/computer/homework desk along the left hand living room wall that backs onto the laundry to be used by the kids so you could keep an eye on computer use. You could still have a small desk facing the kitchen next to the side board for your self, check Out Jess and Norms on the block, it's not closed off which is ideal.

Thanks, look forward to seeing what you have come up with

Sounds like lovely breezeways and Louver windows, big change for you good luck

Here is another version of option 5, I will post comments on it separately from my desktop.

SK, OK and Paul, I think the plan is still coming through, sometimes it takes a while from my phone.

My husband really likes option 5 so I have tried to mitigate the negatives that I see associated with it in this Option 5a via the following, drawing on some of the comments/thoughts that you had. (Ignore the front of the house for now, I will update it for the family bathroom idea and the master suite idea) ... he doesn't like the idea of moving the pool though sadly (and I must admit I do still have concerns about how muchcapital we put into the project).

- I have re-oriented the powder room to allow for easier access to the laundry from the bedrooms, which is where most laundry originates - I think this is an improvement - what do you think? (Please be honest if you don't like it).

- I have also re-oriented the laundry so that the appliances are on the East so that the rooms in the Northern part of the "link" can flow into each other.

- I have added a small nook near the dining table so that my son can be under my nose while he is on his pesky device

- there is some kitchen storage adjacent the nook

- I have added a door to the open plan living area facing West, and I can add a drop zone for school bags in the storage in the living area.

As well as feedback, I have some questions - I want some doors / a door somewhere along the hallway - should it be at the very end adjacent the open plan area, or where "old" meets "new". I can change the fooring at either point (likely my pine foorboards stained a bit darker, and then burnished polished concrete in grey at the back)?

- do I need a door at point 4 if the hallway doors are adjacent the open plan?

- Thinking of a simple outdoor shower somewhere for the pool - but where?

Thank so much for your ideas so far, you have all been very helpful.

trying again

there'll always have to be compromises and you need to decide which is most important for your family. the side access through the laundry/mudroom with easy access to the powder room or the study not needing outdoor access and sacrificing space in the family room to a pile of shoes and bags ... a better place for a child to use the computer under supervision would be sitting comfortably at the dining room table also doing hand written work instead of squeezed into a narrow cabinet sitting on a stool...the question of the sink has to wait until the basic format is finalised and depends on how much counter space, size of cooktop, size of oven and fridge, preferred access to the barbq area etc etc... if you start with the budget and overall plan then the details will decide themselves

I had the sink on the back wall to show that it will fit without any problems, it's just a matter of where you would prefer to have it, and as OK said sizes of fridge, cooktop, sink etc are important. I still question the need for a Study in the new extension with already having enough rooms in the original house for a study.Home Office. A computer desk can be worked into the kitchen which doesn't need to be covered up, it just needs a computer to do home work on, bills etc to be taken care of in the Home office.

Thanks ladies. So often the compromise is between spouses as their use and experience of the house/family is different due to their different roles in the family and what they do when they are home etc....so although I can see many merits of Option 6, I think I am stuck with Option 5, or some variant thereon as I need to accommodate my husband's perspective too.... The reason I'm thinking a computer space/nook in the kitchen/dining area would be good is that my son is reaching the age where a lot of his homework will be on a device soon, and I want him doing it on a proper keyboard and decent size screen, as he has a condition that gives him poor muscle tone /posture. (My daughter will be doing her homework on the kitchen table though).

Did you have any though throughts on my proposed re-jig of the laundry/PR area, giving the ability to access the laundry from both ends? Thanks again.

there seems to be a lot of extra space available in the extension..i'm wondering if you could keep the mudroom and use the street side end of the family room as a study and have the laundry, pantry and powder room in the link with a more generous lower height than kitchen bench study area for the kids

Here's the thing...........all this detail, around family function etc, specific needs etc is 100% relevant and impacts design decisions, even down to the sink position....which is why it's so important that ALL this detail should be clarified BEFORE anything is drawn. There are always going to be differences of opinion between partners on this and that..........

The fact that you're throwing this all around still, is not a reflection on you or certain decisions being right or wrong, but rather whoever you've been working with as a designer or architect, hasn't pinned you down robustly enough early on for the critical detail in order to then go away and come up with a solution that pulls it all together in a way that responds to your specific family needs..............you should be being encouraged (dare I say forced!!) to think about this stuff early on. It's the only way to achieve an outcome that you'll be happy with...........yes sometimes you have to see certain variations (& costs) to work out what certain aspects may be more or less important, but where you are here, you could go on to'ing & fro'ing with another 100 options and versions of it all, but without understanding/clarifying all the little details (such as the desk nook) and your particular thinking around it, or the way you visualise daily flow of the space, say with kids coming home and dropping off bags, or entertaining and how that will work with pantry/alfresco set-up and also the privacy of the powder room, the study and how that sits as a priority in comparison to the laundry etc etc, you'll just keep on questioning/tweaking bits, moving something here and there and then consider the counter effect and get caught debating whether or not that is a better compromise combination or not........and then really you are just considering options that are founded on a certain degree of assumption and guesswork in regards to what is more or less important to you...........

When we deal with designing people's home spaces, it's incredibly personal work as to do it properly you need to extract intimate information about people's lifestyles and the family /relationships etc......it's more than just spaces and to craft them properly you need to understand the family needs first, not just design some spaces and then try and squeeze the lifestyle into it in various compromised configurations........

JEC, with a designer who absorbs the critical data first, the design that you will be presented with will have responded to the detail that is ultimately your specific lifestyle and accomodate all the various needs in a reasonably balanced manner.

Happy to provide some further info on how this should be done if you want to contact me directly....hope this helps guide you a bit - apologies for being firm but there is a way of managing people through the process that avoids exactly the frustrating &somewhat confused position you seem to be in....

Oklouise you must have read my mind, I had to go and do stuff and while out I was thinking on how to finally resolve JE C's dilemma, and that was to use the street side of the family room!. My thoughts were for a pool facility ie: shower WC, laundry & Mudroom. Initially I was considering pushing the kitchen further into the room with a narrow pantry behind it, still plenty of space.

might be different to your idea SK and Paul doesn't appreciate that sometimes we need to test lots of different ideas because not everyone knows what they need until after they've worked through lots of choices...this suggestions has dad's office and a study area for the kids and theres a tiny sink on the kitchen island and another in the pantry and the laundry equipment could be in the mudroom or small study or pantry but the side entry is essential for family comfort and there's is plenty of space for the home office

Something else for you to consider, stepping the kitchen in with a butlers pantry behind which can allow for a computer desk next to the internal courtyard and direct continual access from the butlers pantry to the outdoor kitchen..

By extending the laundry you can include a mudroom for dropping school bags when coming in from the car, also great for access to the kitchen with groceries.

I should clarify that the front wall of the kitchen is not full height to the ceiling as is the Pantry as you are planning on Clerestory windows on that back wall above the kitchen, the cabinets will all be the same height

These drawing show what I mean, in the 2D the broken lines around the cooktop are an invisble to allow me to show you what i mean in 3D, the walls don't show in 3D but they will still enclose this space. Because the walls are invisible it also means that you can look through into the Pantry which you could do if you used a glass splash back

Quick note to say thankyou for your further ideas OK, SK and Paul. I have just been tied up with kid's birthdays, Halloween and school sports day but will return to it tomorrow. OK Louise, you are right in your thought that many individuals don't know what they want until they start working through options and seeking ideas from others - not just from their architect. I really like the architect we have hired and I am confident we will get there in the end but if you are an analytical person like me you like to work through options, and that is the beauty of this forum with talented people who are very generous with their time, and very non-judgmental (thankyou).

I'd love to kiwimills but not sure I'll have much time soon hun! We're still frantically finishing reno's on our current house, have just finished a shed build on the block which we need to fit out with bathroom and kitchenette so we can have an adventure glamping with the kids while the house is being built lol. And I'm about to start up on my online boutique marketplace with my original handpainted artworks and photography :) So I'm well and truly got myself out of mischief ... between all of that and the kids, my time is not my own. But after this house is sold and the shed is finished, I may just do that ;) Unfortunately the great work and time put in by awesomelouise and Siri on that luxury walk in, was lost as the initial block of land we had for that house plan fell over and we had to start again with a new house plan for a different block. Thank you tho kiwimills - I was tickled pink to read your thread - we'll see :)

Oww no, u lost the stool for putting on socks!!??!

Woe, u r busy.

OK well if u start one in the future, I'll be in your fan club

Take care, and sorry about the land.

Resume options !!

Hi Nik, do you have a name or a website for your new business yet that you could share on Houzz

No worries Nik Star, good to hear where you are up to. I am still vascillating.....

I really hope you find a solution JE C where you find the urge to stop scratching that itch that drives you to keep amending, modifing and tweaking until you find you have developed some strange addiction, fascination, love of house plans! lol - or maybe that's just me lol. Seriously, I really do hope you find a resolution .... one where it brings you peace and you can relax and think 'by joves, that's it!' And you'll know because that urge to tweak it will finally be gorn!

I think what's bugging me most is the boxing in of the north aspect.......we've done plenty of projects with kitchen configured backing onto the north, but they have worked due to integrated splash back glazing and consciously working to still maximise/capture the northern light and outlook........if you articulate/break-up the north wall and incorporate this type of thing, with potentially a green wall backdrop that extends behind the alfresco, it will be so much more pleasant that just a heavy solid wall and a wasted/unusable 1m setback

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The other thought I had is if you take oklouise's last layout and completely flip/mirror it so the kitchen is south, push the whole thing further to the south boundary and swap the home office for alfresco, which the overhang stops short 1m of the north boundary, you then could potentially fit kitchen/dining/living and alfresco across the width, making better use of the block width/setbacks dimensions and possibly not even have to extend out east past the pool, which would achieve a much lighter and larger rear yard outlook......

Food for thought....options options ;)

Paul, there is a good chance that we woudln't get anything closer to the Southern boundary past council, otherwise that could really work.

I particularly love that first project you posted - stunning! Actually they are all lovely.

I think you may have won me over to window splashbacks - I am wondering if we have space to plant something in that metre on the North if we stick with the current layout, at least in terms of the kitchen, dining, living? Obviously we wouldn't want it to block out all of the lovely Northen light so maybe something a bit restrained.

OK and SK thankyou for your last plans which are still making me think and think....I am thinking about how to have a study with an external window to keep my husband happy (ideally on the South as there are lovely gum trees on the side street), and yet also have the laundry on the South so that we can have easy access from the pool and a gate onto the side street. Perhaps the only way is to put the study where the family bathroom was going to go, and the family bathroom goes here the laundy was, but gets a bit more space (effectively pushing the build out into the lawn more , but maybe there is no choice). I found a layout that would probably go into a 3 x 3 m space and would work well with the PR adjacent, I will post it from my phone, woudl welcome feedback. I suspect this last option woudl not cost much more as although the overall square metres will be more, we would not be retrofitting a bathroom into the old part of the villa which woudl save some costs presumably. Thanks for your patience guys, as you say Paul, options, options....

oops

keeping the study in the original part of the house is much easier but there's no where in the extension for a 3m x 3m bathroom so my suggestion partly enlarges the old space to add a generous bathroom with separate toilet, includes a study nook in the kitchen and enlarges the kitchen ...the splashback view can be improved with a Boston ivy or similar on the fence without taking up too much space but northern light and ventilation was original expected to be improved with glass gables and raked ceilings in family/kitchen and the size of the extension has been reduced on the south side to increase garden area

Thanks Ok Louise - I was sort of thinking like your plan but increasing the encroachment of the dining/kitchen/alfresco to the east so that those areas stay the same size, but allow for a space that is 3 by 5, or thereabouts, into which I could hopefully fit a PR, family bathroom and hopefully nook - see diagram to follow from my phone(area marked "x"). I didn't really want to eat up anymore of the lawn, but I accept that my "wishes" for the reno are probably mutually exclusive at the moment - maybe I can't have everything.

Like this....

i think my suggested bathroom is much more spacious and private than the 3m square and also has one less toilet and more storage ... my plan has also reduced the width of the lob sided extension to keep it more in proportion to the rest of the house and also retains more side garden ...your latest plan is similar to one of the first from last year so i think we're beginning to work in circles and it's time to work on compromises...keep in mind that the smaller size will keep more rear garden and allow for better quality fixtures and finishes and you've already made one excellent compromise by deciding to keep the study in the original house but, what happened to the raked ceilings and glass gables in the extension? every extra cm adds to the cost and bigger isn't always better so you need to decide what's essential in the kitchen before just enlarging the space

The trick with great design & solution, is to configure in a way that is not an obvious compromise or awkward. It's all in the scaling and balancing.......Any sort of "dogleg" or misaligned proportion draws attention to poor resolution which is worse than the compromised "benefits" that you think you might get. Oklouise is 100% right in that bathrooms actually don't function very well/efficiently in square proportion spaces. Also she's spot on in terms of the larger living is actually not getting a better result one way or the other from a function point of view.........

I've attached a plan sharing a lower level of a different but similar scope project (north orientation is straight out to the right of the page)........notice how open and flowing the extended space/layout is & use of joinery elements to divide and create various function, not just walls - bathroom strategically zoned privately. It's generous in certain areas, and then pulls in on others and simultaneously simplified but delicately balanced. One of the compromises made to get to this layout was that the toilet is in the bathroom & no powder room (although it was on the list) considering there are 2 other bathrooms in the house - nothing is perfect but the trick is to pull the attention away from the deficiencies........the thing is with what you're doing, if you're going to push out east beyond the pool either way, then arguably you could also accommodate the pantry out into that area and still fit in the alfresco which would free up space of space on the other side.......you actually have plenty of space to do what you want to do, but it needs to start with getting the furniture layout tighter/more efficiently scaled and configured, and then build the structural elements back around it......also to do due respect to these older homes, you need to drive the design with formality, centralising and balance, either with the flow or the alignments....

You need to find the balance somehow and I'd suggest it will start with you robustly analysing your "wishlist" and seeing if there is any room to move on certain aspects and possibly it's actually not compromising much, but rather focusing on more efficiently proportioned space .........hope this gives you some more (hopefully helpful) food for thought :) PD

Hi and thanks again for both being generous with your time. OKLouise, I am afraid my husband doesn't like gabled roof idea - I think it would look amazing, but building as a couple is such a negotiation, and I think he will agree to polished concrete (which he isn't keen on) if I let go of that one!

Paul, I have gone back to my wishlist but I have kept a powder room on it - because in the area we are in, it would not be good for resale if we did not have one. I also think it will be jolly useful.

You are right about the "dogleg" and the symmetry that works well with a house like this. I am planning to go back to the architect this week to talk through some of the ideas that have come from you both and Siriuskey, and see where that takes us. I do actually still like the variant that had the bathroom in the old villa part of the house (even though retrofitting it there will add costs) - I can picture it there and I know it will be a room that gives me lots of happiness every time I go into it , I know that's not a practical consideration but sometimes joy from having a beautiful room can be the thing that swings it. You have all been very helpful, thankyou. I will let you know how I go.

I must agree with the family bathroom remaining in the original part of the house, which still allows for a bedroom for everyone and a guest bedroom/study. I would prefer the the gable roof with highlight windows at each end forgoing the polished concrete flooring for timber

This is a very rough idea, You mention that there's a garage but I'am not sure what condition it is in, could it be removed to give more open space or kept and repurposed, and build a new garage with direct access to the house. The family kitchen etc would need to be adjusted,and could be longer down the block if the old garage was demolished for the kids to play?

Hi - thanks Siriuskey - this is a very good logical idea, but unfortunately the garage we have is in good repair and is a large, well built one in keeping with the house so would not make sense to knock it down and rebuild - otherwise your idea would have been spot on. My main learing from this house is never to buy a property unless you are happy with the existing additions or have a clear, costed plan to fix them at the time of purchase!

perhaps the garage could become a pool house, study, man cave

Definitely an attached garage is always a big plus, particularly in terms of value and resale "tick boxes".........which is one of the benefits of the concept I threw out there a few weeks back that involved developing the more logically oriented extension that connects the garage across where the pool is currently.............which obviously involves moving the pool or removing it for a period of time before it can then be potentially reinstated............

My professional opinion remains firm that for the long term investment that is the superior outcome, better spend and highest value-adding option for the property, even if it takes longer and costs more to achieve......budget limit is one thing, but equally you can spend a certain "budget" limit to simultaneously achieve a "more expensive" & lesser value adding result...........let's say you have a limit of $500K but budget aside the arguably best value concept is more like a $650K exercise. A compromised spend of $500K can be actually the "more expensive" option long term in comparison to a higher cost but higher value spend, that perhaps could be achieved in stages or over a longer period of time, say building first and then eventually finishing off landscaping. Rome wasn't built in a day and I've written before about the time/cost/quality relationship and how managing those one way or the other will influence the long term outcomes for a project, for better or worse.......

We'll never tell people what they should or shouldn't want in their homes, but when it comes to resolving/identifying the most logical and profitable and balanced options/solutions for a certain outcome, well that's kind of the business that we're specialised in..............

I am also suspecting that there could be some misalignments/tension on the "client" camp/side (ie his wants vs her wants) of the process that is making it difficult to properly prioritise and robustly shuffle the various project variables........the "in limbo"/"going round in circles" is a classic symptom and ultimately requires resolution somehow.........

I guess there will always be a potential mismatch between what is best for the "house" (which might in this case be knock down existing garage, fill in existing pool, do major changes to existing master extension/ensuite) and the "owner of the house" (which might be live with exsiting modifications even though they are not what we would have done, but we choose to balance the needs of the house against other priorities. ) I will keep you posted guys!

Best of luck with continuing to work through it all JE C - I'm sure you'll get there :)

One last from me, your garage sounds like it's lovely SA stone and well worth keeping and repurposing as a home office, you mentioned that one or both of you could end up working from home, this would give great access for clients.. Add the new garage/powder room laundry/shower room for pool and kids side access into the house.

By building a new garage and still retaining the old does reduce the green area but from experience once kids become teenagers they go else where for outdoor sporting activities and also prefer the beach to the pool.

Thanks again Siriuskey - so many options!