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Bedroom & ensuite design help needed

Ttella
5 years ago

The house we have bought doesn't have an ensuite, so we have decided to take part of the lounge and demolish the built in bar and the interior walls of an existing bedroom and turn it into a new Master bedroom with walk-in robe and bathroom. The space we will have to play with will be as per the drawing below (not to scale). The floor is a concrete slab without existing plumbing and the end with the sliding door has fabulous views.

I am struggling with how to best design the space.


Comments (26)

  • PRO
    Dr Retro House Calls
    5 years ago

    One of your main criteria should be designing to minimise the disruption to the existing slab for new plumbing waste pipes. If one of the walls is an external wall it would be good to design the ensuite so that the fixtures are against the external wall so that plumbing waste can to taken through the wall without needing to jackhammer the slab.


    If you take up all of the lounge (4200 x 3800) then you will have a reasonably sized ensuite and walk-in robe. Unfortunately this space is not large enough for a walk-in robe, ensuite and lounge area.


    Best of luck,


    Dr Retro

    of Dr Retro House Calls

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  • PRO
    Paul Di Stefano Design
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Hard to advise without understanding full context/access points - can the passage be utilised?.....don't be surprised if you hit $50K possibly more by the time you're done for this type of re-fit.....probably easiest setup is bedroom in lounge & convert existing bedroom to a walk through robe & ensuite accessed from the lounge - but it will be tight

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  • siriuskey
    5 years ago

    Can you post more of the house floor plan

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  • oklouise
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    plans showing size and location of doors, windows and hallways will also help and what are the external walls made out?

    Ttella thanked oklouise
  • Ttella
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Thank you for all your comments.

    Here is the floorplan of our house and what we want to do is to take advantage of the fabulous views.

    The house is single brick home on a concrete slab. The build on the new laundry is almost complete and the next step will be to demolish the existing laundry area and put in a new kitchen and pantry. The master bedroom, walk in robe and ensuite area will be next followed by expanding the footprint of the existing bathroom.


    I hope the drawing below makes more sense of what I am trying to achieve. It's the area that I have outlined in red that I want advice on.




  • PRO
    Paul Di Stefano Design
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    When to weigh up the expense of renovating in this situation/context to add a bathroom, but to lose substantial living area in the process, potentially there’s an alternative that involves a higher value adding option where you retain the living space and extend ”cleanly” to achieve extra space desired, but minimise renovation and maximise value add..... you spend similar money but overall investment is much higher gain.......this is the sort of thing we help resolve for people on a daily basis - it’s better to get more for your money, rather than break even, or possibly even lose from a value point of view

  • dreamer
    5 years ago
    Hi Ttella, I can see your vision. The lounge/living area will be increased greatly once the laundry etc are removed. Then the house will be opened up to the views, as it always should of been.
    Just a question. You are demolishing the bar area. Has this got existing plumbing in it, or only a bench set up?
  • oklouise
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    there could be so many different options to consider but all depends on the house and the block but costs nothing to explore various ideas before committing to such dramatic alterations ...what is the approximate distance from the house to all four boundaries, does the block slope and in which direction? can you see the view from the existing master bedroom? can you show location of any garage and driveway and could the entry be moved??? btw the dimension on the plan don't seem to match the dimensions on your first post... please confirm the length of the inside walls for the proposed new master suite

  • Ttella
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Hi dreamer, you nailed it. Yes the house will be opened up to the views and we plan to build decking on that side of the house as well.

    There is no plumbing in the existing bar area. It's only a bench set up.


    Hi oklouise, the house is on acreage therefore the distance to all four boundaries is immaterial. The land slopes down on the side with the view and drops down on the side of the proposed master suite, however the rest of the land the house sits on is relatively flat. The view from the existing master bedroom is blocked by garden and a detached queensland room whereas you will be able to see the view from the proposed master bedroom.

    There is an existing carport under the same roof line and on the same side as the new master suite, however we need to step down into that space.

    It's best to go with the measurements on the whole house plan as my measurements won't be that accurate.

  • PRO
    Paul Di Stefano Design
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Have you priced out all the various aspects to the project? If you are extending anyway to do laundry etc, arguably it may be better to extend a little further out that other side for master & ensuite and retain existing flexibility and value of a 2nd living and study. Then you'll have a true 4 Bed + study/guest with 2 living areas, for when all stacked up similar cost, albeit slightly higher in dollar terms but overall substantially higher value.

    If you were to pursue this strategy you don't need to then extend plumbing around to that side. or touch anything. If you are on an acreage clearly you are not restricted by space. Sure renovate within existing constraints/walls when forced to/no option, but when you have the opportunity to achieve it with extension, it is usually the more cost effective option. If you take away amenity as a "swap" for something else, but net value outcome is similar but you've spent X, then actually you're going backwards. In contrast, if you are able to add space and spend X, then you won't lose if you're not sacrificing existing space/value.

    I totally agree with shifting the laundry, and opening up the vantage point from that central part of the home - that's good move... but losing/underscaling a 2nd living in a 4 bedroom home like this, particularly if you have kids is not a great design decision. considering you're in the throws of a larger project where you are clearly spending money on substantial renovation & extension scope.

    You could build into the carport, but then you lose a carport and have to replace the same with additional expense......what you want to try and do with design decisions is minimise the losses/collateral and maximise the gains. It's a classic case of false economy thinking just to achieve renovation scope isolated under the existing roof thinking it will be the cheapest outcome.....more often a complimentary carefully considered extension will be far higher value adding and longterm in fact the lower cost option......

    Just a bit of Pro advice, take it or leave it........Best of luck! Cheers PD :)

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  • siriuskey
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Just wondering why the mudroom/laundry is on the other end of the house away from the carport and current entrance, are you planning a new carport/parking. The plan shows verandahs on 3 sides with one being used for the new laundry?, Are you able to repost the floor plan so that we can read details

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  • dreamer
    5 years ago
    TTella, your new laundry looks wonderful on your other post. I did this sketch this morning, but then realised I did not take into account your full length window in current bedroom. I will try again, since I'm not a professional. I was also thinking that you could have BIR the full length of the new bedroom area, instead of a WIR. What ever you choose to do, the cost and positioning of new plumbing installation needs to be your main concern.
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  • dreamer
    5 years ago
    Ttella, my new bathroom plan, taking into account the full length window.
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  • Ttella
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Hi Paul Di Stefano Design, to extend on the laundry end of the house would mean that the master bedroom would miss out on the view. I want to see the view from the master.

    We rarely use the 2nd living space so it makes sense to me to do away with it and have one living space that moves seamlessly from inside to outside.

    Hi siriuskey, the reason the laundry/mudroom is on the other side of the house is because that is the side that of the house that is closest to the 'work' area ie: shedding, woodpile, pumps, watertanks, veggie garden etc. That side of the house is accessed by a different driveway.

    Hi dreamer, thanks for your drawings. I like the 3rd one best.

    Hi Daniel Lindahl Architecture, thank you for your insight. We have had discussions with the plumber however your comments have given me food for thought.

  • oklouise
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    my suggestions retain the old laundry as a pantry with sink and external access...keeping the old laundry walls also helps hold up the roof and ceilings for the new open plan area ...the kitchen plumbing is in the same location but still has a line of site from kitchen to the views through the living area, the new ensuite is divided into separate sections to keep all the plumbing around the external walls and allow for some clothes storage and vanity sinks in the dressing room away from the wet areas with a view from the loo and a biw in the new master ... and by rotating the original toilet there's space for a separate vanity in the family bathroom, generous linen, bigger wiw for bed 2 and extra biw could be stolen off bed 3 for bed 4


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  • Ttella
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Hi oklouise,

    Thank you so much for your time and effort in putting your ideas down. Things I never thought of such as the orientation of the toilet next to the main bathroom to allow for a linen cupboard - fabulous. And as you probably worked out, this place lacks storage. Stealing cupboard space from Bed 3 to Bed 4 was something I forgot to mention is already in our plan. Turning the laundry into a pantry (would love a pantry that big) is a great idea, however I feel it would take away from the original idea of opening up that space. I should have also mentioned that there is a wall that separates the lounge from dining that we are keeping.

  • oklouise
    5 years ago

    are you keeping a wall between lounge and dining to be able to close off the spaces? my suggestion to retain the old laundry is partly structural concerns but mostly to allow better access to the view from the new kitchen ...my poor 3D image with the horrible furnishings shows what would be visible standing at the new kitchen sink


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  • siriuskey
    5 years ago

    You mentioned relocating the fire place, sounds like a big job, do you like it? and would you consider keeping it. More details and photos would help.

  • siriuskey
    5 years ago

    Some ideas for you, working around keeping the fireplace, the family kitchen with through breezeway. A separate living parents retreat, possible ensuite extension as Daniel L suggested you may need to consider. A home office/guest and Pantry store room


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  • PRO
    Paul Di Stefano Design
    5 years ago

    There has got to be a better value design/layout solution for your situation........you are touching virtually every part of the existing layout, that whilst changes things around/opens it up a bit, but actually loses certain things in the process, yet still involves extended works. Have you discussed any of this with a design professional? For your investment it would be highly recommended. For what all this is going to cost you, it makes far more sense (particularly considering you are not spatially restricted) to consider a difference balance/building program distribution with strategically minimised renovations coupled with a cleverly sited complimentary extension to both achieve your goals as well as make sure you're not pursuing a relatively expensive project strategy.....

    Best of luck with it! Cheers PD :)

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  • Ttella
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Hi oklouise, thank you for the 3D drawing it really does make it easier to visualize the project. :-)


    To your question of why we are keeping the wall between the kitchen and dining.........

    The original plan (we got it from the council) is not true to the current kitchen design.

    The current kitchen is unworkable. The wall that divides it from the dining room is brick and has a tiled bench with cupboards underneath and one very narrow open shelf and room for a fridge. There is a small island bench parallel with that which has electric hotplates (that don't work properly) with minimal to no set down on either side and a rangehood that sounds like a plane taking off. I cannot open my fridge door all the way as the island has been built too close (it cannot be moved). On the other side of the island bench is a column that houses an oven on one side and a robinhood ironing board/centre which doesn't work, on the other. There is a sink under the window with minimal set down on the LHS.

    The wall that divides the two rooms will accommodate the new hotplates, rangehood and ovens. The new sink will replace the old one under the window and a new island, parallel with the window will give me the bench space I am missing. (I know that many like to have a sink or hotplates on the island, however I will be happy with just bench and drawers). By the way, none of the internal walls are load bearing.


    Hi siriuskey. I love the fireplace and it works - sad to see it go however, we will dismantle it and rebuild it outside and replace it with a closed wood heater on the wall near where the old laundry is. And your suggestion of extending the ensuite in that direction is a good one .


    Hi Paul Di Stefano Design, yes we have discussed the design with a couple of professional design companies, and even considered bulldozing and rebuilding however that was going to be a more expensive option, and we have gorgeous established gardens that we want to keep. I agree, we are touching almost everything and discovering more issues as we go.

  • oklouise
    5 years ago

    knowing that the internal walls are not load bearing and the old sink is under the window makes a great difference to your options but it's disappointing that the professionals you've consulted haven't already recommended some workable options for the ensuite (which is what you were really asking about!! ) best of luck with your renovation and look forward to seeing the results with the gorgeous view

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  • siriuskey
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Exactly OK we forgot that the question was about the master suite, looking forward to what you do with the view in mind

    . Daniel L a Queensland Architect was the one to suggest that you might need to extend the ensuite out onto the verandah to over come plumbing problems

    .I really did think that the new kitchen could make use of the old laundry plumbing giving the kitchen access to that amazing view and alfresco dining , especially as no walls are load bearing? cheers

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  • Ttella
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Hi siriuskey, I loved your ideas and it helps me to re-think the entire project.

    Like you, I had initially thought of moving the kitchen to the side with the view, however after long and meaningful discussions, we decided to keep the kitchen where it is. I also didn't mention that on the kitchen side (northern) side of the house, we also have decking where we gather and enjoy our Sunday breakfasts and cups of tea with anyone who happens to drop by.......cheers

  • PRO
    Paul Di Stefano Design
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    completely respect the value in established gardens......much of our work is super sensitive in negotiating trees and established garden surrounds (to which builders typically roll their eyes at/don't get..."what's the big deal about that tree.." etc....) so I totally understand preservation of this is important...........but possibly there could be an alternative to embrace/interact with that aspect even more with additional building..........

    My comments really come from an endeavour to steer you in the right direction with deep understanding of renovation costs and how they stack up when dealing with theses types of jobs. These are actually harder to work through than new builds, so a design "company" may not be your best option. Really what you need is a seasoned pro/architect who specialises in residential custom work with loads of experience in renovation/extension scenarios of similar scale and nature to what you are doing......larger design companies won't have the capacity to understand the intimacy and intricacies of the decisions/options involved an dhow to guide you properly.

    Certainly completely demolishing and rebuilding would be a more expensive option..........

    Perhaps if you could post some photos and further context info about how much space you have around and what surrounds the house, orientation, decks etc, could possibly provide further comments/advice/ideas......