Hi there, could you re post the floor plans in a larger format so that we can see and read them, they're just too small cheers

sorry, I'm struggling with getting photos from pdf file to upload - I will try another way

we need to be able to read all the details on The plans to understand the spaces and i agree with me me, there are many disadvantages to having two doors into the one bathroom but can't offer any options without accurate dimensions...what is the purpose for the two upstairs rooms

Mostly the bedroom will have the main access to the bathroom. Other people staying over in the living area (fold out bed used reasonably often) can access the bathroom without disturbing the bedroom

Downstairs is the really the master bedroom in the old art deco part of the house

Upstairs is for adult son and many friends who stay regularly rather than drive or commute late at night

Pre renovation we have one bathroom

renovation has 2 bathrooms and a separate WC external to main house.

Thankyou for all for responses and patience - hopefully pictures are clearer now - technology is my challenge. The plans that are close to finalisation

The first question is can anything be improved upstairs despite the small size bathroom?

The second question is how to make the downstairs bathroom semi ensuite?

Thanks bigreader for your idea of the door at the top of the stairs - I know that 2 doors is not ideal.

I want to keep is as an ensuite room, but with the option of access when needed from the living room. Working within that, do you think it can be any better? (without sliding doors)

I had thought of swapping the WC and shower, reducing the space behind the door to the landing so that the size of the shower could be 1200 x 900 and the increased length moves the shower door more into the middle of the room and away from the WC.

The vanity could move further into the corner to give a bit more space, but not all the way?

the plans show that the upstairs bathroom (excluding the walls) is only about 1800 x 1800) and upstairs has raked ceiling that will restrict available wall space that would be further reduced with two bathroom doors, if only one person can use the bathroom at once there only needs to be one door from the hall and the bathroom window should also be moved into the shower space to allow for a wall cabinet over the vanity

downstairs the available space without changing the hall or doors should be just enough for a compartmented bathroom with double shower, separate vanity and toilet and a small built in bath...adding a door into the master bedroom would lose about 1m of wall space on both sides including 1m of biw and doesn't leave enough space for a bath but all the fixtures for both bathrooms will need to be carefully sized to suit the modest spaces

Upstairs Jack & Jill bathroom with doors opening out into rooms

Deb forgot to mention that I have a neighbour with the exact same J & J bathroom upstairs, her son who lives with them has one bedroom and any guests use the bedroom on the other side, they love it and for them works well, With the doors opening out makes a small bathroom work well cheers

I would recommend you avoid the bathroom with the two doors (J & J bathroom).

The doors waste space as well as lacking security/privacy call it what you will. Even going to cavity sliders its still quite wasteful of space and the cost of an extra door....

There is really no advantage to them when a single door achieves the same thing aside from slightly less walking of say 3 metres.... also pretty confident that the landing wouldn't be occupied regularly while the bedroom 3 occupant/s are sleeping..... if the landing was used for sleeping then again just a 6 second walk to the bathroom...

Hi DEB, Your wish for a possible ensuite entry from the bedroom without changing the ceiling, which I love.

I have drawn you a three way bathroom with "Two Entrances", the bath shower is a Japanese style, both share the same floor space. By using a wall across the whole bathroom, this space can have a glass shower door, opaque for privacy. and a door into the Powder room.

This layout doubles as great guest powder room.

Adding another "her" wardrobe which goes up to the cornice and not the ceiling if preferred..I will post a photo of the bath shower idea but not exactly as I have drawn, it's just to give you an idea.

cheers

Some bathrooms that show what is possible with a shower bath combo, solid or glass wall and doors, full height or normal

proposed layout

My program is old but this should give you some idea, excuse the shower, it's a lamp post

Thanks siriuskey for the ideas an 3D look view for the larger bathroom (would not have picked up it was a lamp post without you saying so). I am keen to make to door though, it has been on and off in the decision making, and I think it needs to be on. Some breaking up of the available space creates more options. Maybe a combination with shower and bath will save space in the larger bathroom. I like the idea of a tiled shower that does not need glass.

I have learnt the "J&J" term for what the goal is upstairs in the small bathroom. I'm glad to hear that this is not an original idea and that others have found useful, and I think it will suit us. But based on the response of many, maybe it is not a bathroom that would have market appeal.

Thanks too oklouise for starting my thoughts on a Japanese style layout. The second wardrobe is a solution to replace wardrobe length lost to a door, could also be a retro fit when budget allows.

Looking at the plan you have drawn (maybe the green clears my head) The laundry starts to look like a huge space by comparison.

Thank you too for your drawing back a way, showing a door epening to the landing without risk of falling downstairs. I can see how it could work for the smaller upstairs bathroom.

Thank you for your opinions MB D&D, bigreader and dreamer I am taking on board comments about avoiding 2 doors, I really wanted to canvas ideas and all of that is worth hearing. My own worry about it probably led me to post my question.

I have more ideas now than I had before.

Back to the drawing board.

the Jack and Jill bathrooms could be ideal but depends on the size of adjoining rooms, height of the sloping ceilings and how the rooms will be furnished and used but we can't see dimensions of the rooms to be able to add furniture to help understand the spaces

Thinking about using walls dividing room to make a place for other things to be against a wall. tried to draw an idea... nothing is to scale.

Keeping the door as suggested by oklouise - the door way tiled same as bathroom?

Can i ask for your feedback about using a shower wall to door height to create a tiled walk in shower and a place for the vanity / recessed mirror cupboard to back up to?

Not sure of the width I could use 1200? and if the shower is this depth no need for glass?

Windows would have to be to be swapped over, space for towel rails below? I think there is room for a bath (forgive my sketch) I have seen baths that are flat along the wall and curved at either end, again I don't know what length might fit.

To avoid having the WC on view from the bedroom door, Any opinions about a half door height nib wall?

WC and hand washing in the dry zone and shower and bath in the wet zone.

This is primarily a bathroom for Bed 1. With adult guests not staying often, but accessing WC / hand wash as need be just during social visits (no one sleeping in bedroom 1 at the time)

Hoping to banish young adults to the upstairs area and quit sharing downstairs bathroom.

The laundry as drawn is the current bathroom with WC in one corner and washing machine another. The shower is over the bath and not very suitable for getting older with.

siriuskey - your photo 1 was especially useful in thinking i through and I think a wall light over the vanity would be needed if walling off the shower and blocking some light from the window for the vanity

they're back

Deb, from all your drawings I think you are keen to keep the toilet in the same position, cost saving?

So the following takes the wardrobe space back so that both robes would be done the same within the bedroom.

The following plan keeps the toilet as is, but separate, vanity and back to wall bath backing up to each other, the shower between the toilet and outside wall.

The distance between the vanity and toilet could be 100 wider, ie 890 if the end wall was removed.

I've included a link to back to wall baths, I've included a 1500 bath in this plan, cheers

https://www.acquabathrooms.com.au/products/1400-mm-freestanding-bath-tub-1?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQiAwc7jBRD8ARIsAKSUBHKG2Z5Xg6G4V_Ur8kGyAUCC2x49cSZAlTQnFLABYGyuW14f3wNiC54aAhoiEALw_wcB

Hi Siruskey (just found the thank you button)

Nothing is in place - it is conversion of a small bedroom.

The WC was placed where it is - and was partitioned off as you have drawn, in an earlier version... decided against it on natural light grounds. i like it tucked behind the door - the bathroom will be first room coming down the hallway from the front door.

The link is exactly the type of bath I am thinking of I think i would try for something like 1500 x 750 size

In the house design, there is a completely separate, attached to the house, outside loo / powder room, to be the go to loo for the garage band members /outdoor gatherings / during days working out in the garden and anyone seeking maximum privacy !

Keeping the shower behind the vanity - all tiles - no glass is appealing (not a fan of squeegeeing) 1200 seems deep enough?

As long as 750 gap beween bath and shower is enough to move through easily enough.

The bedroom in the old house has been lived in for 20 years and the bed has always been in the wrong place. The bulk head shown above where the two new small windows are, is where the old built in wardrobe will be removed. I have never been able to put the bed on this 4th wall - have tried it on all of the 3 other walls and it was always "wrong" - not sure if it was feng shui or not. The bulkhead is to manage the symmetry of the ceiling that has a deco ceiling rectangular panel. Partly my motive to take space from the bathroom for the BIR is to preserve the symmetry.

I am trying out the 4th wall as location for bed, as the wardrobe is now storage with temporary curtains other than doors. It has the "right" feel about it.

The ceiling panel is longer parallel to the window - so for a BIR taking off the "length" of the room feels better, than from the width, even though measurements are similar.

What amazes me is how everything in design & planning process is connected to everything else...

Fresh eyes from you (and oklouise) has been invaluable to sort out my head.

.. and I appreciated your understanding of the J&J principle for the upstairs bathroom.. I think I will stick with it :)

i finally realised that the wardrobe has been taken off the small bedroom and the window is wide and off centred so that the shower may fit better on the other side of the room and this version has a bigger shower, private toilet, 1200 wide vanity and space for a built in 1700 bath under the existing window and convenient wall space for towel racks

OR?

That is a completely new take on the shower - not before thought of...

My ceilings are 2.7m high, how high would you envisage shower walls to be?

I kind of like option one.

This is an improvement on what I was thinking. You have a way of looking at things oklouise, not sure how you do it.

i imagine that the new bathroom ceilings have the art deco style so you could have partition walls up to door height around the shower and toilet or my preferred option would be to install a new dropped ceiling below the original and have the partitions to ceiling height with fixed glass panels above the entry to shower and toilet and then the doors from bedroom into the new biw could be just below the cornice in the bedroom (ie with high level storage with small doors above tall doors for hanging and shelf space) ...the new bathroom ceiling would disguise the variations created by the biw and partitions and create a more finished look with suitable lighting, heating and exhaust fans in the new ceilings...then you have to decide the height of the other wardrobe in the master bedroom but i'm wondering if a freestanding vintage wardrobe and/or chests of drawers instead of the second biw would avoid disturbing the symmetry of the bedroom ceiling and not likely to be any more expensive than an extra biw...

Some more photo ideas, the first one is really interesting in not going to the ceiling, by Rob Kennan Architects, the sky light makes a big difference

This one is just very glam and beautiful

Maybe walls not to the ceiling would be better for natural light into all parts of the room.

This is a conversion of the little bedroom that is nothing special and will be gutted, probably just square set wall / ceiling for simplcity- and the window can be moved with town planning permission.

siriuskey - your Pic 1 is a look that I like.

oklouise :) I have in use now a couple of mid century Fleur wardrobes 1200 wide that sit on tapered legs. Or a long low set of drawers as the free standing storage and use the BIR for hanging rails only. Those things can be worked out. But I am very happy to have made the decision to put a door though for privacy for Bed 1 - and I think it is in the right place now.

Combined creative suggestions from you both have really helped. I really appreciate it.

This is a lovely Deco House, with beautiful original features married with a modern extension

http://www.porterarchitects.com.au/projects/lake-wendouree-house/

The white/ black / timber scheme is also my choice... great photos. Needs the inspiration to get on with building and beyond planing :)