heloanand

Please help with my kitchen layout

heloanand
May 7, 2019
last modified: May 16, 2019

We have recently bought a house, first thing was to renovate the bathroom, which i did the help with many of you here, the help from this community is by far and really thankful for that. We also changed the floor to SPC and lights to flush mounted LED's which made a massive difference to the look of the house.

Now we are thinking of renovating our kitchen, I have been playing with different layouts and ideas for months but cant make a decision, looking for some fresh ideas. It would be great if you guys can help me out so that i can finish this off in a beautiful way like my bathroom. we might change the kitchen floor as well to match with other rooms.

Attached is the floor plan which shows current layout, also some photos. first thing - its a suspended concrete slab so moving any utils to the middle of the kitchen will be very hard. lowest point of ceiling height is 2650 as its a slanted roof, height to the beam is 2560. 900mm cooktop, integrated dishwasher, 900mm sink, rangehood can be canopy or integrated, oven can be 600mm double or 900mm under cabinet, fridge 950 x 1850. though we have a proper living room next room we prefer to have the couch in the room with dining table for casual sitting.










Comments (45)

  • rachelen
    I would probably keep sink and cook top in about the same spot but move the pantry over to where you have your second fridge and couch. Then extend the island further towards the windows and the new pantry. Or perhaps have an integrated dining table island thing. The couch could maybe fit on the opposite wall.
    That’s one big column! Any idea whether it’s solid or just plasterboard around something smaller?
  • heloanand

    the column is made with brick, electrical wiring coming in, it was not there before, previous owners removed the walls in the middle and put that column, i wish he had done it with steel post or timber post. it cant be removed the put a steel or timber, but removing it will be a mess which i try to avoid. i like the idea of having the whole kitchen along the wall with a dining /island thing, but what worries me if i do that wouldnt it be look like a long hall ?

  • Kate

    Must first address the elephant in the room. If you are committted to renovation, cut a hole In the column plaster and see what structure is inside, I can see you have electrical so don’t cut wires., it shouldn’t be need to be that big. Then get In a strucutral engineer to look at how small it can be and whether other options exist such as replacing it with 2 smaller columns in better locations or a bigger beam and no columns, Where is the next column behind fridge?

  • PRO
    MB Design & Drafting

    With the amount of money you're likely to spend I would suggest you consider removing the pier. This maybe why its difficult to decide on kitchen layout, it just really locks you in. Imagine how awesome this space will be once the pier is gone!


    Builders remove walls and things all the time so its not 'difficult'. Messy yes, but so is any renovation works. Keep the bulkhead as it defines the kitchen area.

    Get it priced and compare it to the cost of a kitchen.


    Personally I believe kitchens end up being overpriced because they get too much attention at the expense of other spaces. Kitchens get all these 'wiz bang' inclusions and higher associated costs yet the rest of the house may not be well thought out... Sort the spaces first.


  • Kate


    Keeping pillar

  • siriuskey

    This is what I would do, keeping the pillar and cooktop and sink in situ, Fridge space might need to be wider?, if 1800 wide is that two pieces, The Pillar could have shelves extend across he back of the fridge


  • rachelen
    Putting a fridge or oven in front of the pillar is a good idea. I once hid a pillar containing a waste pipe and structural timber by wrapping a pantry around two sides of it. Was messy but a great result.
  • heloanand

    Few things to the above.

    1. The pillar is made of brick not plaster, so cant see whats inside and cant just cut it, i believe its just a column surrounded with brickwork

    2. Yes i checked it with a structural engineer but without removing the bulkhead they are not exactly sure, the house is about 60-70years old with no real floor plan available. it built solid though with bricks and concrete slabs and undergone a couple of major renovations looking at the old sales history. According to him better dont play with any structural things, but he did recommend attaching a steel beam to the timber beam and lock in both ends. I just prefer not to do it because then i need to touch the ceiling, cornice etc, bcos we are living in there its too much work and dust, when we did the only bathroom in the house it was a nightmare. The cost estimated for the steel beam is around $2000-$3000

    3. I prefer to have around 900mm bench space on both sides of cooktop and sink.

    4. Prefer to have the new kitchen be atleast same or bigger than the old one

    4. I like the U shape design by putting fridge in the middle is a good idea but again i need water supply to the fridge for my icemaker, there is water connection behind the current fridge wall. Also it doesnt have enough space on both sides of the cooktop (cooktop being 900mm and the space is only 1200mm ). Apart from these two problems its great. My fridge is also 950mm wide. so the column is gonna get bigger again :) by blocking the view.

    5. The 25Amp circuit is coming behind the existing cooktop, if i have to put the oven tower in the middle then i have to run a new circuitry which the electrician reckons is hard due to the flat roof with not enough cavity space available.

  • dreamer
    I agree with Siriusky. Incorporate the fridge into the pillar. You said it is a brick pillar, and the engineers would of calculated the size of the pillar required. It is not just about putting a steel beam in, or replacing one pillar with two. It will involve ripping the floor up and preparing the footings for the new supporting area, to add strength to support the load of the roof.
    You also seem to have a lot of wasted space because of placement of your dining table. You need to allow for the walkways from patio to other door. But placing your dining table as per Siriusky plan would be much better.
    I would also put a door on that unusual shelf next to door way. Or remove completely.
  • dreamer
    In an ideal world, yes spend the time and money and disruption to take the pillar/pier away. My concern is in Removing the pier, it could compromise the integrity of the structure.
  • dreamer
    Sorry, crossed posts. So another option, due to the requirement of water to fridge. Move the double patio doors across, towards pantry cupboards. Position fridge next to sink area.
    The area seems compromised, apart from the pier, but because it is a thoroughfare. If doors are moved closer to wall, then there is a direct connection/walkway to other external door.
  • oklouise

    i would also research other options for the column but with or without the original. relocated or smaller column my suggestion would be to keep similar existing stove and sink location, move the fridge, include stacked wall oven and microwave, bigger island and keep space for a sitting area and extendable dining table



  • heloanand

    I agree with the U shape except the below

    i need water supply to the fridge for my icemaker, there is water connection behind the current fridge wall.

    Also it doesnt have enough space on both sides of the cooktop (cooktop being 900mm and the space is only 1200mm ).

    And I loose most of the cupboard/drawer space. With the U shape I can count 600, 900 under bench, not sure the 2 corners will work as its only 1200 space, cooktop/oven takes 900 in there,.

    My fridge is also 950mm wide. so the column is gonna get bigger again :) by blocking the view.

  • PRO
    Brian-Custom Made Cabinets Maker

    If the fridge can not been taken away from that wall, then it is quite hard to make an U shape kitchen. my view is keeping the island where it is now, but make it longer toward pantry wall, we will send a 3D picture to explain our idea to revonate this wholse space. good luck, I believe you will have a sulotion here soon, as there many good designers here help you, like these who post above.

  • siriuskey

    Sounds like you are stuck on keeping the kitchen layout the same. Your electrician doesn't want the job, I have an 80's house with similar ceilings and brick support beams, these ceilings are usually accessed from the roof. We also built a free standing Island into our new kitchen layout which needed power, this was simply over come by our tradies who cut a small channel into the slab from the wall to the island, the power was placed into a conduit and then into this channel which was then covered over with concrete and then tiled. You already have power to the support beam so that's taken care of that. The water extension can be done the same as the power.

    A concrete support beam can be a real feature.

    Adding a fridge or a wall oven next to the support beam doesn't take away from the view as that's out from the dining couch space, the kitchen backs onto the rear yard


  • siriuskey

    This similar to what you already have with your"900" space either side of the cook top, this would have a 900 under bench oven. If you reduce the need for the "900" spaces you could add a 600 double oven next to the fridge




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  • Kate

    Gorgeous pic Siriuskey

  • dreamer
    With your concerns about water supply for fridge. Appears you do not want to move fridge. Oklouise design would work well.
  • PRO
    Brian-Custom Made Cabinets Maker

    Hi, we make a design to your kitchen and dinning room, please check with picture attached bellow.

    I think there are aleady lot of spaces for storage, and there still can make some big drawer in the island.

    Our suggestion are:

    1. have island cabinets wrap around the support pillar, and make it longer toward to tall pantry side.

    In the island there can make 2 pcs of 900 width drawer bank, they are large guys.

    2. remove the wall on both side of fridge, move fridge about 600mm to left, so there can make a tall cabinets with microwave(if you need one), or microwave+oven. in the 3D picture bellow, we make 3drawers+microwave.

    3.make a buffet on left hand side of the fridge, full fill that wall with cabinets, wine can be storage there.

    Hope these pictures will help, please let me know if you would like to have more views in the room.





  • PRO
    MB Design & Drafting

    Re: Electrician - get it priced before deciding. It may be 'hard' but so what, if it all ends up in a better location then that could be a good outcome.

    Always get a price on something rather than the hearsay of 'too expensive' 'too hard', etc. Could be a $1000 but compared to the costs with a new kitchen it might be ok.

    $20,000 kitchen + $1000 for the oven electrical = $21,000.


    Re: Pier - get it priced first then decide. Many renovations end up being a compromise because the project wasn't calculated accordingly. Missed opportunity due to hearsay and guesstimates.

    I'm currently doing a project similar with the pier in a similar location.

    I said to remove pier and install a beam - client said it'll cost too much. I asked how much was it? They said 'We don't know, we just think it'll be too expensive....'

  • siriuskey

    Get everything priced before deciding on anything to try and keep within your budget, I think an exposed brick pier would be lovely adding character to your period house. Seems like you have the power sorted by already having it on the pier, so no extra costs there.

  • heloanand

    Thanks guys for the all the ideas, regarding the removal of the column it can be done but it either get messy or cost 2-3k plus dont wanna disturb the structure of the building. Below are my thoughts.


    1. full cabinet along the wall including pantry, then an island connected to the dining table 600blind-900draw-900cooktop-900draw-950fridge-600microwave/oven-1000pantry-1200bench with under winecooler and wine racks as a buffet, for island - 600bench-1100space-1800island(900draw-900draw)-2200dining-1440space to wall, width of land 1250 to align with column


    2. as per oklouisebut with some small changes use a blind cabinet at the corner with a full tower. so it 600blind-450cupboard-450(bin)-900sink-600dishwasher-300 with waterfall on one side, other side 600blind-800(draw)-900(cooktop/oven),800(draw)-950(fridge)

    for island: 600(bench)-1200(space)-2200 wide bench which has 800(drawer)-800drawer)-600(microwave) with waterfalls, 1250 width to align with the column. in oklouisedesign there is only 1000 gap between the island and bench which i think bit congested, i am used with 1200 spacing, i believe it needs at least 1100 since the sink is on that side.

    pantry on the other side two 900 sections with 3 drawers on bottom to match the rest and a small 300mm high cutout/open session in the middle so it will be like a buffet with long overhead cupboards. it will be like 900 high drawers-300high opening with bench-1200high overheads



    3. as per siriuskeydesign - 900crnr-500bin-900sink-600dishwasher-400cupboard,

    other side 900crnr-900cooktopoven-900draw-950fridge

    island: 600bench-1100space-600microwave-800draw-800draw total 2200 with waterfalls which will leave 1500 between the island and pantry so the passage to double doors are not blocked. widthwise: 600bench-1200space-1250wide bench to have a 250overhang,

    pantry on the other side two 900 sections with 3 drawers on bottom to match the rest and a small 300mm high cutout/open session in the middle so it will be like a buffet with long overhead cupboards. it will be like 900 high drawers-300high opening with bench-1200high overheads


    all cupboards/pantries are 2400mm in high to keep a sleek look, for fridge - 1850 high then cabinet.


    1st - i dont know how practical it is as its a whole circle to get in and out to kitchen :)

    2nd - good alignment, more space, i have to put the dining table in a different direction and put the couch in the opposite wall or move the dining close to the other side and leave the couch were it is now which leaves a big space in the middle.

    3rd - is almost what we have now with a little bit of extra storage but a little stagnant


    We really liked where the dining table is now as that kind of the most activity space for the kids, may be its bcos we are now used with it, other options might work as the same, better or less.


    Let me know what you guys think, and if someone can draw that up for me with the positions of furnitures that would be great.

  • heloanand

    Even though the house is 60-70years old it doesnt have that periodic look, its more match with the design of like a 10yr old house and with the changes we have made it doesnt look that old, so i am after a contemporary

  • oklouise

    i've reduced the length and increased the depth of the island to allow for the slightly wider 1100mm gap to the sink and there's already a 1500 gap to the stove...if you think a blind corner is better than a wider corner base cabinet that's a personal choice but before planning cabinets you need to decide on the post and the total amount of space available for the kitchen keeping similar locations for stove, sink dw and water for the fridge and then fit cabinets to suit the spaces ...any bigger than 4m x 3.1 for the kitchen makes the dining and sitting areas too small but it could be useful to continue tall cabinets across the wall in the dining area rather than crowding the kitchen with more tall cabinets at either end of the sink that will reduce counter space and make the kitchen feel cramped


  • oklouise

    as requested



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  • PRO
    Brian-Custom Made Cabinets Maker

    bird view as per your plan posted above, with a buffet/TV cabinets


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  • heloanand

    Thanks Brian.


    two things i am still confused is to whether i should go with a 900mm under bench oven or a 600mm double oven tower just before the fridge. Benefit of having the oven tower is i will get some extra drawers but loose a bit of bench space on both sides of the cooktop. i am trying to limit the total length on that side is under 4000mm. with the oven tower i will have 900mm on one side and 600mm on other side. underbench oven will give me 1200mm on one side and 800mm on other side.


    Next is the orientation of the benchtop. if i go parallel to sink(like above) which encroaches to the door space but gives more space for dining. or if i run the longer side parallel to the cooktop it will end exactly where the fridge ends, i think its better looking when you enter to the room but i will loose the space for dining/seating.


    And what sort of size recommended for the island?

  • heloanand

    i was set on a undermount rangehood but after reading few things decided to go a canopy as asian style cooking.

  • PRO
    Brian-Custom Made Cabinets Maker

    As your post above, We drew these 2 options of kitchen plan, with AutoCAD.

    It may give you more exact measurements of each items in this room.

    What is the sizes of your dinning table? We suppose it is 900*1800 which we drew in the floor plan bellow.

    Regading the island sizes, I think the one in you hand drawings with 2200mm long is reasonable, except you would like to make it bigger.

    What is the island top material you prefer?

    If it is Corian or something like Corian which can be joined with NO join seen, it is OK to make island top like option 2.

    You know, material like granit, marble, quartz stone will have join showed if the stone is joined together by 2 pcs.

    I think this is what you have to think able also: will me mind if I could see the jion on island top?

    If this drawer's dimension is not clear showed at your end, please feel free to contact me for a more bigger file.

    Good luck.



  • PRO
    Brian-Custom Made Cabinets Maker

    I hope the dimension in these 2 drawings bellow are clear enough to read...



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  • dreamer
    Heloaned, have you thought of having two under bench 600mm ovens. Then you will still have your bench space either side of cooktop.
    And I prefer the bench parallel to cook top. It then gives you more bench space adjacent to cooking and fridge area for easy access.
    You would still have enough space for dining area.
  • dreamer

    Also caesarstone etc, come in lengths of up to 3020 mm in Australia. so you can easily do your island in one piece.

  • heloanand

    Thanks Brian-Custom Made Cabinets Makeryou are a life saver. The drawing definitely helps.

    Even though both are same dimensions ,

    option 1 looks like a bigger kitchen, better aligned

    option 2 looks little smaller and things are everywhere, what you say doesnt looks like it have a flow but there is plenty of open space to put a couch.

    I wonder will it be tight if i place a 2200mm x 1000mm couch in the option 1.

    There is another option is to join the dining table with the island in option 1, still i am worried about the left over space for a couch.

    And will you prefer a 240mm overhang on the option 1 to go around the column like on option2? means the slab will be 2200x1440wide which is standard width for ceaserstone and i will be able to put a 600mm cutlery draw on the side opposite to sink/DW which i dont know how aesthetically pleasing or just do a water fall on both sides.

    Its a two slabs job unless i choose to do waterfalls, will have joints if i go around the column but then gives that extra draw and doesnt need to worry about the exposed side of column which i was thinking of covering the whole column with a similar woodgrain laminate as the cupboards.

    To make things exactly perfect can you please change 3220 to 3300 and 4000 to 3900 also place a 2300 x 1000 couch, and change dining table to 2000x1000 seats 6. Really appreciate your time and effort to helping me to get out through this dilemma.

    Last but least option is to reduce the island to a 1400mm x 1500mmand go around the column with bit overhangs on the corners(use 600MV+800 cabinet on one side, 900 on the other side after the return, which will leave a 800x900 overhand space on corner and i will get to keep the current layout of dining/couch plus not blocking the pathway of double door much. or a 1800x1440 bench will give the option to keep the current layout.

  • PRO
    Brian-Custom Made Cabinets Maker

    Hello heloanand,

    please see picture attached bellow...



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  • heloanand

    Thanks Brian-Custom Made Cabinets Maker just measure again and unfortunately wont be able to put the couch as option 1 because of the existing gas heater. Looks like i need to reduce bench from 3900 to 3700 and smaller island.

    Please see the photo, let me know what you think.

    I know the column is not centered but dont have many options here unless i attach the dining with the island which case i can go with a longer island but kids prefer some free space in that dining, couch area so they can run around.



  • heloanand

    is it the correct location for the Microwave, Bin, cutlery drawers etc? any suggestions?

  • PRO
    Brian-Custom Made Cabinets Maker

    Hi Heloanand,

    everything looks great. I believe you could finish the designing work soon.

    some more suggestion:

    1. bin cabinets mostly is 350mm width(however, please check with the bin spec. that you could buy, we do 350mm for our customers most)

    2. in the island 230mm overhang maybe too narrow, 300mm is regular what we do for our customers.

    3. if possible, you may consider to move the entry door to pantry side, just leave about 700mm spaces for the pantry side, by doing this, you may have about 400mm more bench top, ( if this work is not including in your budget, it is OK to leave it where it is now, )

    4. I think 350mm deep pantry is OK. however, please think agian and again what do you need to store in the tall pantry cabinets, 600mm deep pantry take up too much spaces there. if 350mm deep pantry is OK, and by moving entry door 600mm to left, you will have about 1m more of bech top space.

    from the design you have at present, I believe you will have a great kitchen doon.

    Cheers....

  • heloanand

    thanks, below is the bin cabin i am looking to get its 450mm

    https://www.arova.com.au/collections/side-mount/products/soft-close-70l-pull-out-waste-bin-for-450mm-cainet-white


    the reason i put 1440 wide is that the maximum wide benchtops comes in, since it needs a joint due to the column i can cut the 3000mm stone cut in the middle and make 1500 wide of more, no problems.


    moving the door involved too much work like cutting bricks, door frame etc.


    Agree the 600mm is too deep for top cabinets, i am thinking of doing 600mm drawers with a bench then like 300-400 gap, and top cabintes at 450 or 300mm deep.

  • PRO
    Brian-Custom Made Cabinets Maker

    Hi heloanand ,

    I think this is close to what you are looking for now...

    Your kitchen looks great..

    And next you may need to consider the colors, the material...

    Cheers,









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  • heloanand

    Any thoughts..suggestions

















  • siriuskey

    Brian custom made, you are so very generous with your time, your 3D drawings are great to view and shows how talented you and your team are congratulations

  • dreamer

    My thoughts are it's the same as what you have shown in your current kitchen photos, just a larger island. So should work.
    Also agree Brian-custom has certainly given a lot of good advice.