I think it depends on what material it will be built from and how far the benchtop is from the other wall.

With the green line position will there be enough room for somebody to be using the kitchen with their back to the house and room for table and chairs between them and the house? You will need about 4 metres, and ideally more so that it doesn't feel cramped between the house and the chef.

With the green line position it looks like the kitchen is fully exposed to the elements, so will need to be very durable and will probably need a clean each time you want to use it.

I actually don't like either poitions as both seem to divide a large area into two, further reducing the amount of light in your alfresco area, like the great wall of China. This will affect the functionality of the space for larger gatherings. The position seems to be making a real feature of the kitchen at the expense of usability and liveability, and reducing a generous outdoor living space into two pokey spaces.

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I would be exploring other options such as running it at 90 degrees to what you have proposed and making it a less dominant feature. Or running it adjacent to your boundary fence. Or perhaps consider a large wheeled kitchen/bbq that can be moved around to give you the best flexibity of the space, according to the weather conditions.

Best of luck with your considerations,

Dr Retro

of Dr Retro House Calls

Hi Dr Retro, thanks for your comments. Just to clarify the position of the kitchen will be the same , the green and red lines are to Mark the length of the bench, not the position. THe kitchen will still be inside the alfresco I am just not sure if I should have it full length or leave a gap by making the bench shorted. We don’t have other space to place the kitchen unfortunately as the other area is uncovered and we don’t have the budget to cover it at the moment.

Can you add a picture taken from the yard showing us the overall perspective ? And maybe a floor plan with measurements?
I think Dr Retro has raised a really good point about dividing the area?

Hi Legendary, I will take some pictures when I get home. I agree with Dr Retro, the issue we are facing is that we cannot place the kitchen anywhere else without adding too much cost to it (would have to relocate the gas, water and electricity connections or add a cover to the extra space near the dividing fence. The other thing I am not too keen about is to losing the backyard view. Having the kitchen against the wall will add more cost too as we would need to build a fireproof wall + cover the entire area. The idea is to have an all year round area and we live in Melbourne, where it rains one day and the next too. But I am very concerned that we might brake the flow and lose space by dividing the area, just not sure what the best cost/benefit solution would be. Once I send the pictures and measurements maybe you can shed some light on how to resolve this dilemma. Thanks for replying

Some photos of the area to give you some perspective . Will post the plant soon

Some photos from different angles

Plant of alfresco

As I suspected it will be too cosy to cook, sit and move around that table at the same time without it feeling too tight. Why don't you and hubby move the table and chairs to where they need to be (much closer tho the meals area) and imagine six people seated while you are standing next to your new outdoor kitchen and see how it feels.

You are wasting a lot of money building an expensive outdoor kitchen in the wrong place, as you don't want to spend money to build it in the right place. It is going to make the alfresco area feel a lot darker and cramped, and affect the outlook from the inside.

Your viewlines from inside to outside you see everyday, and an undercover outdoor kitchen is only important on rainy weekends. If there is no other option I would only build it half the length proposed (about 2.4metres), and have a 2.4 metre gap. That will give you more opportunity to run the table at 90degree to the current orientation.

Best of luck with your considerations.

Dr Retro

of Dr Retro House Calls

Thanks Dr Retro. Really appreciate your feedback. If we don’t have the kitchen undercover we won’t use it much as the weather in Melbourne is not really great.

This is classic case of throwing grand ideas onto a standardised space with the planning/design afterthought leading towards an unbalanced and compromised end result. If a big kitchen is what was wanted then the alfresco space needed to be designed differently and adjusted to accommodate it properly, with understanding of the furniture and how the adjacent spaces relate to it all. Probably best here to concede a smaller BBQ setup backing onto the house wall next to the door, which will be less exposed to weather. When you're shooting for the big kitchen set-up it needs to be well accommodated from the get go at the design stage, integrated, & properly connected and positioned in relation to/combination with the internal spaces, otherwise it will (as Retro says) box in the space, impact the flow to the adjacent outdoor spaces, & feel and look oversized for the set-up. Your alfresco area practically is only really sized to accommodate a table/chairs. If you add a long length of outdoor kitchen to the external edge, once you get a table in there it will feel squeezed and smaller that it otherwise would.

Good luck PD:)

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Hi Paul, thanks for your comment.

Agree. If we had thought/planned properly we would have made a lot of different decisions.

Our original idea/plan was to build the kitchen next to that wall (outside the Alfresco), but then we literally hit a wall with the cost as we will need to build a fire proof wall + cover the area for a ‘all year round’ option. When the quotes came through we realised we couldn’t do it now.

That’s how we got where we got, with the ‘only’ option being to build the kitchen in between the spaces. Based on the feedback received here we might postpone the project until we have funds to do it how it should be done.

Hi Lila, I can't see how deep your alfresco is but you could consider puting your outdoor kitchen BBQ where you have it marked but instead full width leave a 1M gap at each end to allow access to your new extended outdoor area, you could also consider adding a weather proof 300 deep bench on the back of it so that you could have stools to sit up to the new outdoor kitchen

Hi siriuski thanks for your comments. The connection pipes are next to the wall so I can only leave a gap at one end.

yes I noticed that, it will cost extra but those connections can be either channelled across under the concrete at the edge of the original slab or run up into the ceiling and across to where the connections are needed, this would then need a post to contain the connections down to the outdoor kitchen, I would have a post included at both ends to balance it out. This will cost extra but can be done by speaking to your local electrician and Plumber who can cost it for you. This would have better flow for all the family to move around. What are the dimensions of the space

Christine, thank you so so much for this. I think it solves the problem. Is best to do in stages then do it wrong. Thank you! As for a holiday, we wont be having one in a long time but all good, we will have plenty of time to enjoy our newly built home. Cheers

Hi Christine,

One more question if you don’t mind: the original plan was always to build the kitchen near that wall/fence, but we were told there are restrictions and that we needed to fire proof the wall (our neighbours garage), or to leave 1.1m between the back wall and the start of the kitchen.

To make the wall fire proof would cost a fortune and we didn’t particularly like the idea of wasting 1.1 meter. Do you know if there are any alternatives to fire proofing a wall? Thanks again for your help. Is very much appreciated.

I think it would be wise to sit on your hands and save money to do what will work best with your new house, by building the BBQ out to the side will restrict your access to the rear of your house

Hi siriuskey, sorry I didnt understand your plans.

Hi Lila,

I am in NZ so the rules might be different to where you are in regards to fire rating. In my experience, there are ways to build right to the boundary without too much expense though it will be more than a standard wall. The issue is that you would probably have to build a roof over it too that is fire rated for the 1.1m from the boundary. Here in NZ it is 1m. You can do it with concrete blocks for the walls or double sided fibre cement lined timber framed walls. Check with your local council and a builder or architect for the construction type needed.

If you don't need access to the back yard for anything bigger than a wheelbarrow, just build the bench straight out towards the boundary (90 degrees to what you were originally going to do) and stop it 1.1m from the boundary. You can build the roof extension later over the whole space and deal with fire rating later too. You could even have a bit of bench that flips up to extend the bench in the boundary gap if the whole thing is too small and drop it down when not in use.

Don't forget to check where your legal boundary actually is. You may have more or less land than you think.

C.

Thanks Christine, I am chatting to my husband now trying to find a solution that makes him happy. He doesnt see the 'loss' of space by building in between the areas. I definitely see it. His main concerns now are how we will cover the wok and the fridge as he doesnt think that a canvas will be enough to protect them from weather conditions. Also, the waste pipe is in the same wall as the gas and water connections so the sink needs to be really be inside the alfresco. Not easy, my friend. Not easy... thanks again for your input. Very valuable!!!

The other thing his friends mentioned too was that by building the kitchen in that second area (outside the alfresco) would block access to the backyard, in case we need to get in with a bob cat or something. But to me this is not important. We just did the landscape so I dont imagine us needing to access to the by anymore.

sorry about that Lila, I added your floorplan to try and show how running the outdoor kitchen at 90degrees breaks up the play area and limits access to the rear. Your services aren't in the best position and would be better off extended. possibly running them across to the boundary and building the outdoor kitchen along that boundary and even include a pizza oven. This could be covered with a Verogla pergola which can be closed or opened to suit the MEB weather.. Your table and chairs could be placed on the new slab and then the immediate area off the kitchen could have an outdoor lounge and space for the kids and friends. In the mean time just enjoy a simple BBQ until you feel that you can afford the outdoor kitchen, while that is happening you can speak to council and get quotes for what is allowed cheers

So sorry, siriuskey, I didnt recognise my own floor plan :P thanks for that, yeah, it makes sense also. So hard to make a decision but definitively looks like we will have to push this project.

I think your husbands friends are on the money

Hi Lila

The waste pipe can still work with the L shape but if you are concerned, switch the sink and BBQ locations. That way the BBQ fumes will be further from the house too.

Access to the back yard is always a consideration but I wouldn't let it rule your overall design as there are always ways around it. I had a mini bobcat come through my house to dig the pool in the back yard when I lived in Brisbane!!!

A sail maker or equestrian sewer could easily make a good cover for the bench unit and I've seen it work on several occasions, but I would save up for the pergola to the side of the house which without any issues with the neighbour, could go to within 1.1m of the boundary or just as I drew it.

Good luck with the decision making and enjoy your alfresco lifestyle.

An alternative idea as your space will be cramped unless you have an extendable table. Hoe many times will you need a table to fit 8 +? You need to think about how is this area going to be used? How often? What kind of cooking?

If it is really going to be used as a second kitchen to do all the big cook, consider invested in a top of line, multi function module outdoor kitchens https://www.bbqxl.com.au/shop/category/bbqs-barbecues-barbeques/outdoor-kitchens/ that can be moved out when more space is needed. In the corner you could build in a sink, frig and dishwasher.

Some inspiration Vergola Pergola pictures, being semi or free standing will be a lot easier

Hi all, an update on this. After much consideration and after talking to a few more people we will put it on the left hand side from where is now, I.e, with its back to the backyard. We will lose the full view of the backyard but will still have some view as the kitchen won’t be too high. This option will keep the kitchen inside the alfresco and allow for the two areas to still be connected. A huge thanks to everyone for taking the time to share your thoughts and opinions. Really appreciate it! I will post photos here when is done :)

The kitchen is finally done!!!

Thanks all for your input and suggestions!

:)

Gorgeous Lila,
What a fab space.