Is the 2020 wall external, I would have a window where the end wall cabinets if it is for natural light in what is a walk in cupboard, depending on your climate I would also have full height window or glass door there, don't think the sink is important as the fridge is on the other side of the room, but if you were wanting to use this space as a Bar plus pantry I would include a sink

Are you storing appliances in the pantry, or using them in the pantry. If using, yes, a sink would be good. If not using appliances in the pantry, then no need for a sink. There appears to be no windows, and it is a storage space, so chopping/prep of food would be done in kitchen area, so again, no need for a sink in the pantry.

Thanks for the comments. no it's not an external wall, we are installing a skylight for natural light. I will be having appliance on the bench in the pantry which was the reason I'm worried I might want a sink.

But, are you storing or using the appliance in the pantry?

Yes I will be using appliances in the pantry.

What depth are the floor cabinets, that first shelf could make it difficult to work with appliances ? How far are you into reno's

Replacing the Bar with a Pantry doesn't really work well within your flooplan?

the plan isn't exactly how it's happening it's just the best one I have. one side of the pantry is only 400mm deep for food storage etc and the other is 600 (the side that will have a toaster and kitchen aid on it.)
the bar is in a separate area that is not shown on that floor plan.
the kitchen is currently being manufactured, although I could possibly make a change to add a sink if necessary...
but was interested in others thoughts on how much they actually use a sink in a pantry!

this was the plan you were working off?

I find it difficult to understand why you chose to layout the kitchen as you have when in the lower part of this floorplan you have a massive open space, Anyway if you intend working in the pantry you will need a sink and DW to help things.

Thanks siriuskey, do you mean the open space that is to become the kitchen?... it's a cathedral ceiling with rafters, so to keep the ceiling for the open feel there was no other spot for the pantry.
on 1 side is the garage and on the other side is the dining/lounge area, where we have an 8 seater table and a few lounges

It's too late now for I'am sure you will make it work, the Bar worked in that space because it was open to the small sitting space but by enclosing it you have made it all very cramped. I'am attaching the link to your post to show what a lovely kitchen was already in the house but needed bringing up todate to allow for a pantry to work, You have a lovely house to work with.

https://www.houzz.com.au/discussions/5722172/kitchen-layout-ideas

Definitely add a sink if you are using applianes in there. You might need to add water to something, rinse veges or implements or wash hands.

I agree Siriusky, what a lovely kitchen it was. I'm sorry and apologise in advance, but, I don't see the advantage of these changes. You have almost 4.5 metres from pantry to stove, and even more from pantry to fridge. At least you will keep fit, travelling around your kitchen. Also, when you are using your appliances you will be stuck in a small storage room. Due to the layout and appliances, yes a sink in pantry would be good. Hope all goes well with the changes.

If you don't want a full sink, what about one of those sort of drainer things with a tap that they use as water stations in coffee shops? It's access to running water thst I think is essential.

I have a scullery I use for similar purposes (except thankfully mine isn't so far from the main kitchen) I wouldn't be without my small sink, it's necessary. The other thing I now wish I had put in to the scullery was bins and a small dishwasher. Next time!!

That's ok, I'm not asking anyone to see the advantage of changes LOL! It's hard for anyone to know our circumstances and lifestyle from a few images! it is going to make a huge difference for us! my question was simply how much do people use a sink in a pantry. if it turns out that I use it more as a storage room and bring the appliances out to use that doesn't really matter, I'll work with it!.
Will post images when we are finished!

I have a sink in the butlers pantry as I also have a dishwasher and a pass through to and from the dining room. It works well for me as I can hide all the mess in the butlers pantry. As the kitchen is open plan to the lounge dining, I want it to look streamline and minimalist as possible.

If you are you using the pantry for prep, you need a different design, sink, perhaps a dishwasher, more bench space. Prep is messy. The layout as given is not a work area as such. And there is a distance to sink and dishwasher is kitchen, where mess will be piling up on the island.

houzz is still not functioning can houzz pls contact us to fix

I say yes if you can put one in do it

I would put a sink in there. I have a sink and a dishwasher in my butlers pantry and use them all the time! My kitchen is open to the dining and family rooms, so having the sink and dishwasher in the the butlers serves to hide all the mess and dishes. I like that it helps in keeping the kitchen looking tidy, especially when there are guests around.

Have you thought about turning the island bench around so the seats are on the left wall? It might give better flow to the pantry.

You need just a round small sink in there.. but if your not keeping in there.. don't think u need one.

Surely a butlers pantry is where the "stewarding" activities are done: eg: washing up, and cleaning and is where the double bowl sink and dishwasher would be : activities that you don't want to share with guests (eg all the remains of the preparation and meal sitting in front of guests or family before being washed up). On the other hand preparing ingredients can be an activity shared and visible and is where you would have a small preparation sink along side the cutting boards (another benefit having a sink for preparation that has not been used with detergents). The peeling and trimmings can be removed to the butlers pantry or a separate bin adjacent to the preparation sink provided for recycled waste.

The design solution needs to be worked out around how you would like to work and then the interior design will follow. Form following function

I put in a butler’s pantry last year and put a small ceramic butlers sink and a single draw dishwasher I debated for months if I should do it I’m so glad I did I use them all the time.

It seems that I am the only one against the sink. Many people will use the sink which is close to cooktop and fridge. Running with dirty dishes or apples to wash in pantry is a long way. So most of it will end in your kitchen. Yes you might use the pantry sink sometimes but spend more time cleaning it. So instead of one dirty sink you’ll have 2 with unwashed cup appearing here and there. I lived with pantry sink and didn’t installed it a my new house and very happy about this decision.

An unwashed or rinsed cup or glass is hardly going to result in contaminating the preparation sink. If you don't want to separate the messy washing and dirty preparation from the less messy activities in the space more open to the rest of the house then don't pretend that you have a Butlers Pantry. You just have a walk in pantry and that's OK too.

I would not put a sink in the pantry. I could not imagine preparing a meal or washing up in what is essentially a big cupboard. I want to be where my family is, where I have views etc.

I wouldn't put a sink in a Pantry either, but would put them in Butlers Pantry; the function being the difference

I have a pantry with shallow shelves with groceries on one side and other side is appliances. I have a small round sink in the corner with an inline water filter and a single dish drawer. Extra dishwasher takes up very little room and doesn’t get used regularly but is great for parties, or days of lots of pots and pans. The sink is great, use it to fill the kettle, coffee machine and rice cooker. Doesn’t need to be big or fancy but certainly makes my life much easier.
Good luck
Old photo but sink is on left.

Hi, just uploading some photos of the finished project, we are very much enjoying it all! with regards to the pantry, i find i have the option of either working in there for small things or bringing the appliances out if im going to be cooking for a while...

Looks wonderful. Did you end up putting a sink in the pantry?

I assume you have put oil, spices etc in the cupboard or drawer next to the cook top.

Awesome.

no we didnt put a sink in the pantry, it meant sacrificing too much storage and the extra plumbing cost wasnt justifiable... and yes spices are next to the cooktop.. v handy!

That is the difference between a Pantry and Butlers Pantry. Traditionally the Butler (and stewards) would be responsible for the service of meals and the washing up and care for the tableware (and the service of all beverages) so there would be sinks and washers in the Butlers pantry area. The cooks Pantry (or day store) is part of the chefs kitchen where they held the ingredients for cooking and would only have a sink in the pantry if they are going to do any preparation (for instance washing vegetables) but these days most meat and veg are ready to go and don't need cooking.

These differences are to some degree maintained in 5 star hotels kitchens and certainly are in kitchens in buildings such as our Government Houses and in larger embassies and so on: all of which I have designed in the past.

Sorry, I forgot to answer your question: it depends on what you want to use it for. If your kitchen is very exposed and open to your living space you might want to avoid having the mess of dirty dishes etc exposed, in which case the Butlers pantry could be a way to go. If the pile of dirty dishes may not be so obvious then the Pantry could be the way to go. But if you do have the sinks in the actual kitchen, please; please think carefully before you put it on the island bench or bench return upfront where all your dinner party guests are exposed to all the washing up! If you do put the double sink and dishwasher in the Butlers pantry, I suggest you will still need a small sink for cooking in the main kitchen space, which will require the extra plumbing but save alot of time.

Beautiful renovation Kre1989, thank you for the 'after' pics :)

I love your tasteful styling too!

Note - This is what I think of the concept in general. It's not a criticism again the OP - I think Butler's pantries are better idea's in concept than practice. I've not understood the rationale for a kitchen thats separate to your kitchen, unless of course you are prepping all your meals in there in which case what is the kitchen for? I think it's a sign of the times that we have more space and more money than we know what to do with when we start installing two kitchens in the same space.

Of course I understand the rationale for a pantry. A place to store food items that may not be used frequently and the same for appliances. In the days when food was only available in season and the only way to preserve certain foods was to pickle and bottle it then a large space to store those supplies was necessary.

We live in the modern age now where any food can be gotten easily and cheaply all year round. So these spaces are housing mostly appliances that we rarely use. And if we rarely use them you have to ask yourself why you are holding onto them?

Austere, well lucky then the owners of this home, did not put a sink in the pantry. If you read just a few posts up, you can see the finished product. Which in my opinion looks wonderful.

I think the Butlers pantry concept has been a result of kitchens being open to the living area and suddenly realising that there is a whole lot of messing things that go on in a working kitchen that it would be better if the rest of the house or visitors etc were not exposed to. The cook can just appear with the ingredients ready to go in the oven or whatever and at the end of the meal the washing up disappears behing a door (to be done later unless you actually do have a butler).

Sounds like we should just revert back to a separate kitchen again, so that when foods a ready they are either served at the kitchen table or taken out onto the dining table if you were lucky enough to have a dining room

MC Hamilton

Can I ask "What is the size of your Butlers pantry"?

It is 2.8m x 1.8m