heloanand

Help with a kitchen design for our new house

heloanand
24 days ago
last modified: 23 days ago

Attached is the plan for our new house, i am looking for the best layout for the kitchen, like cooktop location, sink location, pantry towers if any? etc etc. its a new house and currently at planning stage. Also you are welcome to put any advices regarding the floor layout aswell.




Comments (114)

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    16 days ago

    Thanks @Kate we will have someone using the guest bedroom mostly, either my mom or mother-in-law. its for us to live for now but if i just build it with my preferences it will come back to bite you when you trying to sell, so i believe its always better to consider what others like and try to adjust ours according to that.

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    16 days ago

    @differentways Yes, we dont want to be in a position that when we try to sell it people see there are so many negatives, thats why we are stressing too much about the design, It has to fulfill our needs at the same it should please the others, so when the time comes to sell we get good return. I like the way you completely come up with a new design. I know i am trying to squeeze too much into the small space, especially that small study area.

    The list we have for the ground floor is a attached bedroom(3.2x3.5), a small study, sitting area for guest, powder room, Laundry, walk in pantry, Kitchen with island, 7m-8m in length for living/dining combined. Pretty big list with an area of 123m2

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  • differentways
    16 days ago

    sorry heloanand we must have crossed over on your aspect question. You previously mentioned that because of the slope you don't get sun from East or West.

    The front of the new house faces North so it's important to use that

    . IE: the sun as you say travels East to West, is higher in the summer which puts the sun over the top of the house and is lower in winter so that the sun penetrates the interior of the house if allowed Hence widows/doors facing North.

    Do you need an office/study on the ground floor, where will the kids do supervised homework etc.

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    16 days ago

    @differentways Kids will be using their bedrooms or upstairs retreat area. Downstairs study/Office is for me to keep my PC, laptop, files etc also when i come after work i have a space to offload my laptop..(In my wifes word - "all the craps"). She wants a small room for it so i wont put all the boxes and papers everywhere. She also wants a sitting area for the guest, so if someone like a broker/agent etc comes to the house we dont need to bring them to the main family area which is mostly messy with kids playing around. I was planning to put highlight windows around the east side to bring the sunlight in as due to overlooking issue. Also put windows as splashback for the kitchen. I like to have an island bench in kitchen as that makes it very connected to the dining/living. A bench attached to wall will allow only one side access which actually really separate that area from the rest. Kids like to run around as well and an island bench is best for them, plus i like to cook while treating my mates, so we usually just group around the island.

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    16 days ago

    @macyjean thanks for your valuable inputs, yes we dont want to do anything too unusual that turns away potential buyers at some point. I believe a walk in pantry is important at this size house or enough pantry cabinets.

    upstairs ensuites we choose to have separate since the plan and the space allows it, initially we were going with a common bathroom. We have to put the tub in the master ensuite since there is no common bathroom. I have seen similar houses without a bathtub all 4-5 bedrooms attached but no tub, i believe every home shouldve atleast one bath even though its used very rarely. An extra bathroom is not adding much to the actual cost since if not attached you have to have a bath+toilet.

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    16 days ago

    Another option was to do 4 bedroom upstairs with common bathroom, but we dont see the need of having 5 bedrooms in total Also if we go with that option common bathroom was next to master which we didnt like.


    third option was to put the common bathroom and powder room where the two ensuites/wirs place, also have the robes along the wall

  • differentways
    16 days ago

    And all this time I thought I was communicating with lady of the house can I ask what she wants ?

  • macyjean
    16 days ago

    It's your choice what you feel is worthwhile. I was addressing your intention to

    "live there for few years until we find another good one closeby"

    Yes, enough storage is important in a kitchen.

    Individual ensuites say 'luxury' but also 'inconvenience' and 'cleaning'.

    Individual ensuites might be attractive to some potential buyers but will be a negative for others, a so-called 'deal-breaker' even when they like everything else.

    A nice standard family bathroom might not be a particular selling point but it won't be a negative either. I doubt if there are many potential buyers for whom a typical bathroom is a deal-breaker.

  • macyjean
    16 days ago

    "Another option was to do 4 bedroom upstairs with common bathroom, but we dont see the need of having 5 bedrooms in total Also if we go with that option common bathroom was next to master which we didnt like."

    Saves costs putting plumbing closer together and noise issues can be dealt with in other ways.

    Have you posted pictures of all your options? I remember something about number of bedrooms but I don't remember seeing comparison plans.

    So you are choosing 4 bedrooms + all ensuites rather than 5 bedrooms + 2 ensuite? I would have thought the latter has better resale value. Only because you are already talking about selling in the foreseeable future, otherwise do whatever suits your lifestyle best.

  • dreamer
    16 days ago

    Heloanand, in a couple of comments you have mentioned: " and a house at this size i believe should have a WIP. Total sq of the house is 33sq. "
    So since in WA we don't use squares I converted to approx 300sqm of home. However the space that holds the main 'working' part of the home is restricted, not spacious.
    A functional kitchen with good accessible storage is the outcome you are after. especially when you have restricted space in the kitchen dining and living area. So I would design to that outcome, a walk in pantry with the metres you have available, may not be the best use of space. Especially with your original design you are putting a lot in that WIP, do you really need two cooktops?
    I also agree with @macyjean. Decent sized bedrooms with a tiny ensuite, is off putting to me. Young children, teenagers......who is going to clean the bathrooms. I would prefer one good multifunctional space with a separate powder room upstairs for minor bedrooms, not two individual compromised spaces.
    But as said, this is my opinion, not my home.

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    16 days ago

    I havent posted the picture here, but just imagine the 5th bedroom where the wir/ens for the bed2/bed3 and bathroom where the master WIR next to the stairs. its not really in a nice spot

  • dreamer
    16 days ago

    I thought you didn't want a fifth bedroom?

  • Cee
    16 days ago

    5 sounds a lot but with 3 kids, main bedroom & a guest room - if you can fit it... why not.

    Unless a study/other smaller living room could be convertible when guests arrive? (With a good quality sofa bed).

    Guest room doesn't need to be huge, although depending on age of guests/Grandparents, may want to consider stairs & also room to manoeuvre in bathroom?

    I met a woman recently who's elderly parents came to visit. A fall on the stairs, a broken hip, Grandparents now enjoying the downstairs master suite & thanks to Covid, not leaving anytime soon..

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    16 days ago
    last modified: 16 days ago

    @dreamer what you mean by "However the space that holds the main 'working' part of the home is restricted, not spacious." The kitchen is 4590mm long, 2700 deep with a 2590x1000 island, the pantry is 2280 x1500, and no i dont need the extra cooktop, already decided to remove that.

    "restricted space in the kitchen dining and living area." Dining/living area is 8130 x 4600. My understanding was those are pretty decent spaces for it purpose.

    I do agree the additional ensuites may put off some buyers, but they are standard size for a shower/toilet/vanity which is. 2100 x 1850 and have the added bonus of WIR's to them. I have tried with common bathroom/powder room option but i am yet to find a good layout. It would be appreciated if anyone from here can draw up a better layout, there are some wonderful people here with great ideas and experience. What we are looking upstairs is 2 decent sized bedrooms for kids(atleast 3.2x3.4 or bigger), may be space for kids to put study tables, bathroom, powder room, a retreat space which doesnt need to be huge, 4x4m master with walkin shower/double vanity/toilet, A good size WIR, some storage space and a possible balcony which is not a deal breaker.

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    16 days ago

    @Cee as I mentioned we are not after the 5th bedroom, the little one is only few months old i dont see she will be moving out anytime soon from our room, even if she move out she can share with her sis, so i think more important is whatever no of bedrooms we have just make it big enough to accommodate an extra bed. I dont see a demand for 5bed here, Most families have 2-3 kids and downstairs bed is mainly for grand parents. if no grand parents then one kid can use that bedroom. I am not counting any guests to do sleepovers if they do we can ofcourse make room in kids room.

    Since there is two living down stairs and a theatre room under, i also dont see anyone spending much time in the upstairs retreat, unless i put a gaming console or something for the kids. But when you have a theatre all the media will be there. Plus you have the TV in your main living.

  • macyjean
    16 days ago
    last modified: 16 days ago

    So the children are young enough to perhaps prefer baths to showers and are nowhere near the age where they will clean their own suite including their own bathroom and you are envisaging two of them sharing a bedroom but you still prefer more ensuites and less bedrooms and less bathtubs? You have the opportunity to not require your children to share a room and you have the opportunity to increase the number of bedrooms for increased resale value. You've got a potential personal benefit while you live in the house and you've got a potential future benefit when you sell the house, which you're giving up in favour of more small ensuites. I don't think walk-in robes are necessarily a worthwhile "bonus" either, especially in secondary bedrooms, because the floorspace is wasted and the corners are difficult to fit out so they function well. Additionally you are including an upstairs retreat but say you don't really have a use for it? I try to answer with an understanding of the requirements of the question, regardless of whether it's something I would personally do or not, but I'm not understanding those choices.

    heloanand thanked macyjean
  • dreamer
    16 days ago
    last modified: 16 days ago

    This is my quick sketch for a bathroom upstairs in the space where WIR and en suites are.

    Or another option is to put vanity where I have shown storage, which gives the bathroom free for a multi functional area. The bathroom does not have to be that big, but you did say you were after a luxurious home. This would take away the need for a bath in the master bedroom en suite, if not required.





  • heloanand
    Original Author
    16 days ago

    @macyjean your points are perfectly valid and got me rethinking about some of them. i dont think everyone will be using every space in their houses, some of them are part of a design thing, retreat is one of them, an open space is good when you enter a floor, if you use it for entertainment or not thats another thing.

    same anyone doing a full ensuite house dont expect their kids to clean it all. I will talk to the realestate agents here again to see about the full ensuite vs 5bed. The problem here is even if i decide no ensuites and 5 beds i can only put the common bathroom in an odd spot. So its 4bed&common bath&powder vs 4bed&ensuites&wir

    the bathroom location can only be in the same spot wether its common or ensuite. Thats the only reason we opt for ensuites for the kids bed, we thought you have to have a bathroom and powder room any way so why not just add an extra shower and toilet to make both attached.

  • dreamer
    16 days ago

    My comments about space were more to do with movement around the spaces: for example the stairs lead into the dining. The access to the backyard is through the dining and lounge. Where will the kids every day toys, handicraft table go? I would think not in the living room that everyone walks through when entering your home to get to the dining/living area. I prefer your amended drawing you posted, yesterday. But prefer over that, differentways plan with kitchen moved to the back of home. This keeps the living near dining a separate space and not a thoroughfare to outside. Again, my personal thoughts.

  • macyjean
    16 days ago

    "same anyone doing a full ensuite house dont expect their kids to clean it all"

    If my kids are old enough to have mini 'master suites' they are their responsibility to look after. Perhaps you employ a weekly cleaner but you cannot assume potential buyers will want to do the same. So it comes back to a typical family bathroom won't be a divisive feature for buyers but ensuites will. A family with 2 or 3 kids is more likely to value separate bedrooms for the kids and a bonus study than ensuites and walk-in robes for secondary bedrooms. That's for resale value since you talked about only living there for a few years. If it was a long-term home and ensuites are your thing, build ensuites.

    Overall the plan has spaces which do not serve you well so wasting space elsewhere merely as "part of a design thing" does not add up. With a generous 33 squares you should be able to have better.

    I think it's a shame the importance of orientation has dropped from the conversation too.

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    16 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    Appreciate your input @macyjean

    we never thought about it all until i started this thread, its good that i put it up here and see what others think, we were on a different page all together, our focus was something else. have to sit with the missus and go over everything again. With the baby and work she is finding hard to spend time on this

  • dreamer
    15 days ago

    Further to macyjeans comments about orientation. differentways design, would give wonderful winter north sun into the living/dining room. This is shown by her 3D drawings posted.
    With the original posted designs, the kitchen would block all the winter sun. Unless you had a full window splashback along the kitchen north wall.

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    I now clearly understand the north facing thing.

    With the original design plan was to have full window splash backs behind kitchen and high windows through out the right hand side(kitchen/dining/living), you know those small long windows which sit high close to the ceiling

  • oklouise
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    just to add to the variety of options a new shared bathroom that could eliminate the need for the bath in the master suite and be more spacious and comfortable for kids from babies to adults although a FS bath in the master suite might be a selling point



    heloanand thanked oklouise
  • differentways
    15 days ago

    siriuskey/differentways

    Eastern facing windows will give lovely morning sun, northern windows will give sun and heating during winter, a kitchen window splash back won't give as much light with minimum warmth, so still not the best choice.

    If my kitchen option was turned 90% , the pantry and laundry could extend out along that wall across the deck, but It would take up much needed outdoor space.

    A 4 bedroom house needs the outdoor useable space to balance with that, with 3 kids where will the children play to quote Cat Stephens.. It also reduces the more expansive view from what I call the LIVING room, parents retreat.

    The kitchen family room and deck is where the family hang out and yes it will get messy, so keep it simple, less is more, keep the floor space open, IE: furniture to be kept to a minimum with one good sized lounge and dining table

    My posted kitchen still gives you a WIP, you can increase that while still maintaining the balanced width.

    You love an island well this still gives you that, if you were to detach it to fit that brief, you can do that at the expense of losing 1 - 1.2 you don't hae lot of floor space to play with. Open plan layouts don't need to be kept to 3 - 4 for each space as they can take take from each space ie: a 1 M plus space between a lounge and wall becomes the space between a lounge and dining table you don't need two similar spaces

    Kids access should be limited to kitchens, especially small one's are best kept on the other side of the bench for everyone's safety

    . I used to have a bottom deep draw filled with all our plastic containers, no breakables in a keep out of the rest of the kitchen position that the youngest could use to make him feel he was part of the action, he was ten years younger than his brother who was allowed behind the island and to cook.. Islands attached or other can create a great barrier but it's up to you to set the rules.

    I couldn't help feeling that you described everything as though it was a Man Cave, it's not it's a family home and has to work for everyone. Get the boys out on the deck and use the BBQ/outdoor kitchen weather permitting.

    You have obviously paid a Pro to do the original drawings, not all of the others, what I don't understand is how did they agree to so many things that really don't work in stead of giving you the best house, were their hands tied.

    Try to allow them to show you a better way as it ends up costing the same for a good or bad design cheers

  • differentways
    15 days ago



  • heloanand
    Original Author
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    Thanks @oklouise thats. very thoughtful Family bathroom, something out of the usual way, two can brush the teeth same time, if two needed to use toilet same time there is one downstairs. So you still recommend a tub in the master. i believe the kids bed sizes are similar to the original plan in this. only think with this is the master gets small, we were looking a 4 x4m master. Can you please workaround that space. i was working on the below, but i think yours have the benefit of avoid toilet and vanity doubling up potential cost saving


  • differentways
    15 days ago

    siriuskey/differentways

    Instead of writing my long winded response I should have finished working on my floorplan it's rough but shows that both OKL and I had similar thoughts, dimensions are a bit rough but trying to read those on the original plan was a struggle for me.

    I have shown the Master with a King bed and secondary bedrooms with a Queen and two singles both still allow for desks. Big point to consider when wanting Lux is to pay extra for full height simple profile doors throughout the house cheers

  • differentways
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    that's almost as good as mine OKL! I will finish detailing mine today and post

  • dreamer
    15 days ago

    and if you refer to my sketch from yesterday. Oklouise is almost identical, just sides have been swapped. maybe it wasn't noticed because i have not got a fancy computer drawing.....

  • oklouise
    15 days ago

    dreamer's plan for consideration with allowance made for wall thickness...


  • heloanand
    Original Author
    15 days ago

    As per @oklouise plan. Sorry @dreamer i must have missed your sketch yesterday. Can you pls post it again. King on master, double on bed2, two king singles on bed3, 1600mm vanities, 1700 bathtubs, though i prefer 1600mm tubs, cant find one in this program. not sure with the ensuite we can go to the front wall, if i can then i will have the tub if not i will remove it i guess, as WIR space is important too.



  • macyjean
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    Scroll up to find Dreamer's sketch, it was yesterday and not far to find.

    You don't sound as if you necessarily want a master bathtub and you have two WIR's, so if you are flexible as to bathtub and WIR, a separate wc in the ensuite is nice, that always looks like a feature which is both luxury and practical in display homes.

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    15 days ago

    sorry i thought dreamer posted a full sketch, yes i do remember the hand sketch. There is not much space left in the ensuite to create a seperate wash room. i think when the toilet sitting there the whole ensuite looks bigger, but if i split the room get smaller.


  • differentways
    15 days ago

    It was the obvious place to put the family bath by replacing the two smaller shower rooms and WIR's

    This is now detailed the separate WC has a third basin so all the kids can brush teeth at the same time. The Master has been given a Lux feel with double full height doors entering the room plus it is extended into the balcony Juliet style which can be as narrow as you want. With large North facing widows and doors you can just slide the doors back and you are comfortably enjoying the outdoors, that extra space is better used in the bedroom to add to the Lux feeling. The bath in the ensuite is another Lux touch set beside a large opening northerly widow.

    The WC can be as shown or moved down next to the entrance.

    Finally a Large robe for him and WIR for her


    heloanand thanked differentways
  • heloanand
    Original Author
    15 days ago

    Thanks @differentways and @oklouise i have combined both your plans, please see below and let me know what you think, any negatives? positives? We are happy with the open toilet in ensuite as dont want to create too many doors and enclose everything which will make the rooms smaller. I will we will put a double towel rail and the mirror cabinet on top in the bathroom, a robe hook behind the door etc.


  • oklouise
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    try reversing the ensuite so the entry is on the same side as the wardrobes and you don't have such a long walk between bathroom and clothes but you haven't allowed space for bedside table so not sure of available space and prefer differentways family bathroom with outside window for the toilet

  • differentways
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    Remember North

  • differentways
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    From my perspective

    1) If you are not going to put the tub on the North end of the ensuite don't have one you lose the wow factor and the northern warmth with the all important outlook you already have a bathroom where you can sit in the tub and look at a wall. A highlight window above the vanity doesn't have the same effect

    2) WC opposite the entrance to the ensuite. not a good idea

    3) I purposely had the entrance into the ensuite at the other end so that you can go from the robes straight into the ensuite and not have to cross the room.

    4) Never enter a bedroom at the bedhead

    etc

    Family bathroom, as long as you have one instead of the two wet rooms is a big step forward although it has a lot of wasted space cheers

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    15 days ago

    @oklouise i have already done that just after posting :)

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    15 days ago
    last modified: 15 days ago

    @differentways let me look into it, too many wordings hard to understand, your ensuite has too many doors which we dont want, but i agree the bath at the other end, then i have to twist the shower then the walking space is congested, if i put the tub/shower at where the vanity is then i have to move the entry door more, which affect the bedhead space. and we dont want shower and tub together which makes cleaner hard as bath will always be covered with soap. i think vanity next to the entrance in ens is good as you dont have to walk much plus wet areas(tub/shower) at one end


    bed sides are 450-550 we have 4100-720-100=3280 for bedhead and side tables.

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    15 days ago

    @differentways family bathroom wont work due to size limitation. the bed3 robe and bed3 will become too small around 2900

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    15 days ago



  • differentways
    14 days ago

    Here we go again

    Not sure why you say that the family bath doesn't work I worked from your original dimensions of WIR 1350 x 1750 Bathroom 2070 x 1750 plus 100 for internal walls, I have made a couple of changes still keeping the powder room on the external wall

    Bed's 2 & 3 I don't agree with the positioning of the beds, bedroom 2 entering room at bedhead, ( also consider spaces around the bed), so I prefer my new posted layout

    Bedroom 3, again entering looking straight at one of the single beds, no privacy so have moved the beds which will also allow for 2 x 1800 robes, they each have a separate robe in a shared bedroom, no fights.

    Master bedrooms 4100 x 4000 is very tight on the 4100 wall so I have adjusted the entrance to the Ensuite and his robe so that it can work, once again check spaces between the bed, the King size I have used is 1900 x 1900 and side tables 500


  • heloanand
    Original Author
    14 days ago
    last modified: 14 days ago

    I guess the bathtub you put in the family is a 1500mm one right?

  • differentways
    14 days ago

    It's actually 1600 it's situated to be easily resized

  • heloanand
    Original Author
    14 days ago
    last modified: 14 days ago

    Ground floor we are thinking of going with this one. I am not worried about northern sun now, as with our landscape it is bit hard to try another shape and we feel like this layout of kitchen/dining/living gives us the most usable space. We might put a tall window above the kitchen bench instead of an overhead to get more light in.

    I have added a hall way table at the entrance, A bigger study/office, Linen/broom/storage space, laundry has external access.


    For the First floor we are leaning towards this one, which gives more space and big robes in bed2 and bed 3, also a WIR for his&her. 1800mm vanity, walkin shower and bathtub, a small balcony enough to put chairs and a small coffee table, we may make the balcony a little bigger as the master bedroom is now 4x4.7m. What we think is with this configuration 3/4 people can use the family bathroom area at the same time. I am not much worried about the bed orientation, this configuration work for us, anyone buying, its big bedrooms, they can put it anyway they like.


    Thanks to all specially to @oklouise and @differentways who went above and beyond to draw the designs for me, we wouldve put the toilet at the bath with window as differentways. suggested, but. then its too messy with robes and bedrooms get small., We dont want any robes sticking out, a wall to wall robe will give that luxury feel. We also like @dreamer ensuite design but again i think this one gives a different feel, something out of the box, what we usually see like in hotels. Also thanks to @macyjean & @Kate some of your advices were very valid and got us rethinking a lot of stuff. And thanks to all the others who spend there time looking at the design and reading the long messages and giving there much valuable opinions, every little suggestions are important. I know its not finished yet but we are almost there, if there is anything to improve or if i miss anything please let me know. We really value your thoughts and suggestions. We are very happy this turned out this way.

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  • Kate
    6 days ago

    Good work on finalising your layout. Looks great.