I do like your proposed plan. My questions are: is there enough roof space to have a legal height habitable room? Where do you propose the stairs to this loft room would go? Why can’t the small living room be your fourth multi purpose room?

so, the stairs will run along the back wall of the new living room. We will have to increase the roof height to accommodate the 2nd level room, which will be ok as far as permits etc go, it becomes more of an aesthetic on how it is likely to look against the existing roof line. The current 'sitting room', is designated as a 2nd living room (for the kids) and with a 2nd level we are likely to move the study upstairs (WFH needs!) and act as a 4th 'guest' bedroom as well. The entire house will approx be 220m2 with the 2nd level, which is by no means a large house and we felt we need just a little extra space but not prepared to extend outwards any further into the backyard.

I think the proposed living area is too big. She does it need to be so large. Other than that the plan looks great. Why do a second floor?

If having stairs in the living room, then the size is good. Having the loft as a guest bedroom would not be close to a toilet and bathroom. A guest may feel uncomfortable using that room. If you need a work from home space, the loft will be ideal. Would that mean you could make the new front bedroom bigger? Because the study is not required. Young adults who need to study, from my experience, tend to set up their desks in their bedrooms.

Richard Wood, Sorry, just for context, what age are the children?

Hi Richard,

A few thoughts....

You have a great house! I'd be trying to keep as much as you can of it, particular those original front spaces. Sure update the bathrooms etc but I'd be cautious with how much you hook in and pull apart the original building and put back together in a different configuration, unless it's absolutely shot. If it's in reasonable condition I'd be considering a solution that retains the lovely existing proportions of the front rooms for the reason of managing the budget and getting best bang for your buck. The front room is a perfect 2nd living as is and well zoned with existing bedrooms...

I'd be cautious of reducing bedrooms in real estate - no. of bedrooms = $$....you're turning an existing 3 bed into a 2 with a whole lot of living amenity that is typically applied to 3-4 bedroom set-ups - something is out of balance here....

It feels like there's a potentially more cost effective option that extends a new addition to the west (from where the current laundry is) where you could potentially link the house to the garage with a new kitchen / dining /living setup, with the Master suite positioned where the current B3 / Living is to the north/east.

Whilst you're unwilling to take more of the rear yard it seems that the internal amenity is being compromised with some false economy thinking that you'll be saving a lot by keeping everything to the existing footprint. You'd be surprised to see how the numbers wash out one way or the other and I'd confidently say that a ligher renovation scope that retains more existing coupled with a simple clean "new build" type of structure lightly linked would yield a more interesting, impactful and higher value spend than what you are currently considering, that retains more of the character of the original and uses the available space (both internally and externally) to better long term results.

I'd be hesitant to consider an upper level for just one space as it is expensive to get upper floor structure in and founded to the ground unless the lower level plan is being completely stripped and reworked. Arguably you'd want to get value return for adding a stair & upper level form with either a full master suite or a secondary bedroom zone if you're going this far.

It also looks like there's some site fall from rear to front so a new addition could respond to this with a stepped level that would connect/integrate more seamlessly with the rear external spaces. If the extension was managed differently, more lightly connected) you'd have more flexibility with ceiling heights and building form.

Would be good to know more details of your family scenario and ballpark budget

Hope this makes some sense?

Cheers

PD

www.pauldistefanodesign.com

Paul Di Stefano design. Your comments above a very wise, and have been said by others on another post by Richard Wood last year. We have the same train of thought when thinking about keeping as much of the original and adding a new extension. It seems Richard has looked at these comments from last year and decided not to go that way with this new design.

These were oklouises comments with her wonderful design above.

thanks for your response Paul. Very insightful. So, family set up is 2 parents, 2 girls 8 + 5, we are planning for their teenage years where they are likely to want some privacy and separation of living (when friends come over etc), hence the sitting room (a 2nd living room when required). In regards to budget, targeting $600k covering refurbishment of existing + new extension to a mid/higher finish. In regards to the proposed plan Vs existing , we are in fact changing very little of the original building, removing the laundry and altering some internal walls, nothing structural. The additions in this single level plan are exclusively the dining room + rear living, approx 45m2 in total. When you refer to a 'lightly linked' new structure, can you please provide a little more scope around what this means? The concept of maximising use of existing structure + only adding a small addition has certainly been something we have worked towards. This house layout (3 beds + 2 living) lands about 203m2...our feel is we could be a little tight, hence we are exploring the option of a loft above the living to buy some additional space, moving study up there (which can double as a spare room for occasional guests) and creating a larger 3rd bedroom downstairs. Hopefully this can provide a bit more colour of what we are trying to acheive.

cheers

@dreamer thanks for the background info - i'm clearly late to the party lol!

@Richard Wood thanks for the further detail - also apologies I misinterpreted the proposed floor plan as I see it in fact has got a 3rd bedroom

My opinion / advice remains consistent in regards to being super conservative and as minimal as possible with any renovation as those front spaces are so well propotioned and there is actually a fair amount of land there to work with at the rear. I know you think you're not changing much but even non structural changes add up and you are touching nearly everything, breaking through brickwork that would need to be restored at the openings and you are extending at the front as well as the back, adjusting roof form and that all equates to $$...Priced some concepts for a project of almost identica scale/scope (albeit on an existing weatherboard home, which is cheaper to work with) that was in great condition ( 3 bedrooms, study, laundry, LKD, 2nd living, master, deck etc, existing garage not to be touched ) ......I did 3 options pricing landed from $800K-$1M and the reason being was that we had to pull everything apart and put it back together.

If you have $600K with an extension + reno scope it's going to be challenging

I think oklouise is heading on the right track with her strategy with your budget, but I'd probably go further and not touch the front existing rooms at all, make the big front room the 2nd Living, Dining Room becomes 3rd Bedroom, existing 3rd bedroom parents retreat/study that you walk through to existing Living that you fitout as the Master suite, demolish the laundry, remove the kitchen and that can be a walk through bag drop, storage like you have or put the space into the main bathroom setup, the a little link & a laundry off it in the same place as it was, but built with a lower flat roof section tucked in under eave, then extend a simple LKD in a rectangular form going lengthways on the block towards the garage which can be whatever level or height or roof (probably a simple hip) with a deck to the east. You lose the fire pit thing you have but if you could swing the extended areas for around $4500/m2 you'd get a larger extension for $350K with $250K to do a much lighter reno startegy keeping more of the existing which would give you more floor area overall and better bang for buck...

It means you're not pulling things apart and spending money on putting them back together or changing rooflines in the same position where you'll never see the money you're throwing at it....

We try and think about solutions to maximise the overall value and stretch the budget as far as it can.....don;t fall in the false economy trap of keeping things under the existing roof only to rip out walls and spend money rearranging the sock drawer when you could have an alternative that keeps more of what you already have and spend more on the higher priority areas of the main living / kitchen that feels like a proper extension properly designed, positioned and scaled to the function

@oklouise yes exactly, pretty much this approach….far more cost effective and less invasive solution….imo the upper level arguably not necessary with 2 living areas achieved anyway….would also suggest a variation on this with the master suite at the back where the existing living (outlook to pool) but would prob conceed wir or accommodate in existing bed3 and keep the existing living at the front as the 2nd living and keep the existing dining more intact as a 4th bed or flexi space to save reno…but all personal preference / balancing of priorities…..

Following on from my previous suggestion to access the house via the New Carport.

This new plan maintains the existing large Sunroom 5.6m x 4.2 with wonderful windows and timber flooring for the new kitchen with banquette dining under these windows..

I would also forget the upper level consider adding an upper level over the garage for a study guest etc with Velux windows as shown in your post opening out to the East pool side

thank you all, some great ideas on layouts @siriuskey@oklouise. We will take all this into consideration. I like to have my thoughts challenged (hence this post...and I am a total novice so gladly receive the input). @Paul Di Stefano Design regarding the existing house, we will be retaining the rear brick wall (double brick, nice heat sink) which we intend to become the new internal wall of the extension. I am assuming you are referring to the roof line from old building to new extension as a structural change...how do we avoid this, just adding a skillion flat roof? The existing house needs a full internal refursbishment, new bathroom/kitchen/carpets/new plasterboard + insulation in the walls/etc...it has not been touched at all since 1950s when built. Very little change expected to existing walls, and nothing load-bearing I believe. One point I keep coming back to in my mind, an approx 200m2 house, is this too small and will not pushing for additional now (when renovating) impact resale value down the track?

Thanks Richard, a flat roof with opening pergola in the mix across the rear, the western sun will be enjoyed in winter

Plus as the carport is on the main entrance and the garage is located on the rear lane, you could consider turning it into accommodation/pool room even without adding a mezzanine, there's a toilet close by that could be used with this and the pool. A house doesn't have to be large just needs to flow easily. cheers

Hi Richard,

I think I know exactly where you are - this road seems too familiar.... Fairmont Road Newtown backing onto Allen St coming off Shannon Ave??..... I'm 5min away

Happy to offer to have a chat directly if it helps

$600K is a decent spend and really the best way to properly manage a project of this scale/extent is to invest in having the design professionally addressed. If this is the location I think it is the investment will reap dividends if done correctly

It really does depend on the existing conditions and how far you are taking it - it's just it's a different ballgame completely stripping back to bare bones and having to refit the whole interiors. If you are redoing plaster everywhere then it does change it and flooring decisions make a difference if you are wanting to say keep floorboard vs carpet in certain spaces if you are moving rooms as the hardwood frams of that era were built to the floor framing and flooring cut around so if you move a wall you have gap etc

In regards to the existing roof structure and managing this with an extension there are various ways of doing this and consequences one way or the other. If you want to keep the hip aesthetic and extend directly from it it needs to be tied in and if you build all the way across the back in order to maintain gutter to the extenal the lines change, the form / ridges extend further in some places in the middle (over the existing) to tie in. as an aside I'd also be really hesitant to mix & match fenestration styles like it looks like in your elevations...Just with understanding of the land fall in that area I'd guess you have likely 2-3 metres min fall from back fence to house, so if you push out with an extension on the same level then you'll be retaining rear yard and spending money in landscaping to manage if you want to keep the same level & same ceiling height. However if you design the extension to keep existing roof untouched, a little link with a flat/sloped to side to a new roof that could pop up then you could have a higher ceiling height at a stepped up level more aligned with the back yard so you feel less like in a bunker looking back and have a roof that is simple to build, flexible in height/level and not constrained by the existing gutters/config......there's tricks of the design trade to negotiate all this stuff that we do instinctively and from experience to make the overall layout, combining existing and new, integrate in a way that feels cohesive but equally fresh, updated and working with the block in the best way possible.

Structural changes will be creating any opening in an external wall, which it looks like you are proposing in some places, which whilst is all doable, preferably better to avoid if following a more conservative approach in regard to touching existing. If you say the existing needs a full strip out & update then yes this is an opportunity to adjust layout but even then it's good to keep as much as possible to save money and put it into (as to what you say & is a valid point of) ensuring you're not undercooking the overall investment as yes value in resale is a factor to consider and buyers do have opinions on size. As @siriuskey said it's not all about size but it does have to work/flow. 200m2 on a 700m2 block ?? COnsidering the location I can understand why you're wanting to make the most of the opportunity. I'll also add that the cheapest time to build is yesterday, so if you're going to do this then better to maximise opportunity to get it right once and see it as an investment. You get this right and you'll either make money, or not want to leave because it's that's great, and the longer you stay the more the property appreciates in value - that's just how it works these days here...

As I've described in other posts over the years the advised approach for people considering their potential options for their homes is to stack different scenarios up together with proper likely construction cost projections so you have a firm understanding and accurate comparison of Option A vs Option B etc in terms of both layout and budget...When we're dealing with a reno / extension combo it becomes a balance between how much of the budget is distrubuted to different areas and if you can get more stretch in terms of amenity by going lighter with existing and having a better designed and less squeezed new extension component then it's a clear winner in terms of design scenario. If you strip this thing to the bones and add even a modest extension and put it all back together slightly differently with an upper level I guarantee you'll be looking at a price tag double your budget...I just finished one in East Geelong

Anyway, hope this helps, answers some of your queries and as I said happy to have a chat directly as really this is hard to cover it all and provide accurate / comprehensive advice in a series of forum posts.

Cheers,

PD

As an added exercise, I have put a red line on every wall that is being moved (approx). There is quite a few. So this means, walls, floors, cornices, ceilings, door frames, new walls. This reinforces the point about working with the existing structure and adding a new extension. Richard, by your explanation the internal walls are timber studs??….if that is correct that is fine, but look up and see what original cornice work will need redoing etc etc. , look down and see how the change in floors will be integrated etc etc. if the internal walls are brick, that’s another scenario again.

@dreamer there's actually more than that

- added a few external brick penetrations in orange, green shows where windows filled in....also the back wall between laundry & dining unlikely be exposed brick when laundry is demolished and so there'd really not be a lot left of it if you did a fully accurate demolition plan..... hence our comments/suggestions to consider keeping more of existing layout as it avoids as many new windows, brickwork making good, flooring making good etc....as you say cornicing etc all could stay unless it is in a state of disrepair that by the look of it it isn't, rather it would need a decent update/freshen up.....then there's the levels challenge to the back - if you change roof form probably would lead to a full re-roof and/or more structure if keeping tiling

Richard, comment from today "Very little change expected to existing walls, and nothing load-bearing I believe."

Richard, I would be getting a structural report and confirm which walls are, or not load bearing. Especially if you would like the load of a loft extension as well.

Understanding how these roofs were framed back then chances are that those internal walls likely bear load to foundations, particularly as also a tiled roof. Newer volume buildings with truss roof framing can get away with exclusive external loadbearing with internals being non-structural and positioning flexible on a slab. This house will likely have strip footings to the perimeter brick fabric with internal stumps bearing load from internal walls as the roof would have been stick framed old school style with props & the like taking some of the roof load down to the internal walls. Yes @dreamer a structural report would confirm, as would simply inspecting roof cavity.