ADVICE NEEDED - planning permit objection

4 years ago

Hi all,

My husband and I purchased our home last year and it’s a 1960s brick home on 1000sqm. The block next door which is of equal size to ours had an old weatherboard home which was demolished six months ago. The planning application is now public and they are going to build two double story houses side by side on the block.

There is a protected banksia in their front yard and we were prepared for two houses. However we are very new to this and they seem quite intrusive and close to our home. We have spent quite a lot of time going over the plans to make sure our home isn’t impacted too much, especially the amount of sunlight we will get.

My question is, can anyone offer advice on what to look for or are there professionals that can help us better understand the plans?

We have done a pretty thorough comparison so far and will do some measurements outside tomorrow to get a better idea of the scale.

I’ve attached the link to 42 Fortescue Avenue for anyone interested.

https://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Planning_and_Building/Planning/Planning_permits/View_currently_advertised_planning_applications#Seaford

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks, Ash

Featured Answer

oklouise

4 years ago

for something this important that will affect the ongoing value and comfort of your home i would invest in professional help from a local architect and solicitor who can interpret the plans and advise on your rights about the likely impact on your current home and on any future plans you may have for your own property..phone around and ask for professionals who specialise in knock down rebuild, duplex etc...things i would ask about are a shadow diagram (that should have been included with the DA) to see how the shadows will impact your property throughout the whole year not just on one day, line of sight from all their windows to better understand what the new neighbours' will be able to see..have you lost privacy or compromised the current or future use of your property?.. what are the minimum and maximum heights of the new buildings and distance from all boundaries so you can clearly understand exactly where they may impose on your views in and out of your house and yard.. One thing that may be in your favour is that new buildings may be build on a concrete slab and have lower ceiling and roof heights so you may find that the new buildings heights are not too different from the original house but you really need specific professional advice and it's much cheaper to object before the DA is approved or building commences and, even if you're not too unhappy with the results of your research, i would also be asking the developers to include new higher fences and/or screening hedges to improve privacy for everyone...best of luck with your new neighbours

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Comments (12)

PRO
Dr Retro House Calls
4 years ago
Yes, I run a service called "Dr Retro House Calls" which provides a 2-hour in-home consultation. However with planning applications it is important that any objections with council are lodged in a timely manner, and if you miss the deadline there is not much you can do after they been approved. It is also important to place any objections in town-planning language. Check out my Houzz reviews.

Best of luck,

Dr Retro House Calls
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Appreciate the thoughts and this may be a solid option elsewhere in the country but in my circumstances I don't plan to be moving from this property any time before the kids are 18. It is located in Sydney's inner west, and in a specific high school catchment I plan to take advantage of when the kids are older. Stamp duty to buy the property was close to $100k and if moving out even in ten years to a larger property; that averages $10k a year spent on stamp duty. I know 115m2 internal is tight, as is the fixed layout due to existing bedroom walls, ceiling heights, wet areas, and the like - but there has to be a way to make this work... I have read that 4 bedroom apartments should be 102m2 or bigger. I am willing to make compromises where possible but I really want to create that extra separate room "Multi-purpose room" which can double as a study/work area/kids play area/media room/ad-hoc sleeping accommodation". Paul Di Stefano: I don't think these changes essentially equate to 'rearranging a sock drawer' - this is my PPOR so I am not too concerned what other buyers want or resale value if I plan to hold the property for 10-20 years +... (any trends we design for now may well be outdated by then anyway). Many buyers highly value indoor-outdoor integration. By moving the kitchen to centre, it opens up the rear and creates indoor living->outdoor living link. If I get IKEA flatpack kitchen and DIY as much as possible - have a friend reroute the water/drainage/+his licenced electrical friend...hopefully this work would cost sub-$20k. Adding the sliding door to rear is $2.5k. Ensuite, bathroom and laundry I believe I can fitout for $10-15k all up- let's say 15k (again, tiling, raise flooring, showers/fixtures/flat pack laudnry cabinetry install all done in-house without tradies). The only thing I really need professionals for is to move the gas line in kitchen, BIR installs, stone benchtop, and maybe a few adhoc wall demo/construction/doorway moving - lets call that 10k. All up ballpark that is 47.5k? Sirius- If I go with your style plan then I lose the potential 4th bed space and have no where for relatives to stay, babysitter, nanny; etc :( Maybe it is a possibility that the main living space be used for lounge room and kitchen, we can always put dining table in the Multi-purpose room, then when that room is needed for sleeping accommodation, the dining table be moved to the side and kids can eat dinner on island bench bar; lounge or outside table... ? those doors to each side of the fireplace as you suggest - this space is very cramped outside (2.45m width) and potentially would be used to store trailer or garden shed, there is an old terrace built on zero-boundary there and they have a DA to go 2 storeys; which will shadow the whole area. This is why I planned to make the rear south corner a raised deck and try to channel house activity leading out the existing glass french door to that deck, or the rear sliding door. See photo-(my house is on the left, terrace zero boundary on right, and front on is a wooden dividing fence which on the opposite side is the driveway/1 car park and front street.
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siriuskey
4 years ago
It appears that dual occupancy is happening on your side of the street and might be the way forward for you as well, but in the meantime do get professional advice, a town planner would be a good way to go and asap, good luck
spmm
4 years ago
Agree with the other comments about professional advice and objecting quickly. — The shadow diagrams included are incorrectly labelled and are for spring equinox not winter solstice in June. —- If I am reading the plans correctly on a small screen there will be a 6 metre AHD ‘trellis’ next to your house #44 on their side of the fence.
—- It also looks from one of the pics, that there isn’t a proper fence at #44 on its north side just the wall of the house? — will loose most of the northern light to #44 and noise will increase. Check the setbacks are correct will be different for single and double storey components of the design — surprised there are no sustainable components to the new design, ie solar and water harvesting.
spmm
4 years ago
Yes agree with siriuskey - worth considering the impact of their design on any plans, designs you may have for your block in the future.
lucygannon
4 years ago
Hi Ash this is pretty typical in developing areas like yours and I agree with the previous replies. You should be concerned with the overshadowing of the corner windows of your north facing room(s) close to the boundary, for most of the day up to six or seven months of the year. The overshadowing will be from the proposed upper storey of the proposed development. I suggest that you request that the upper Rumpus Rm is moved east to replace the present Bed 2 which will still provide the developer with a 3 bedroom unit, and ensure you get some direct sunlight into that part of your home for most of the year.
ash_heritier
Original Author
4 years ago
Hi everyone, I can’t thank you enough for your advice and taking the time out to look at the plans and our concerns. It was only advertised a few days ago so we will get straight onto finding some professional help tomorrow. I also thought the shadowing seemed incorrect but it’ll be good to chat to an engineer/town planner who can interpret this all for us. They are investors and plan to sell both houses so it’s important for us to get this right. Cheers, Ash
ash_heritier
Original Author
4 years ago
I contacted the town planner at our local council whose contact details were provided to us and he seemed really uninterested in my concerns and dismissive. He is happy for us to come in and have a chat but I feel like we will get the same response. Should I just avoid dealing with our council and find someone externally?
siriuskey
4 years ago
Absolutely you need to speak with a private town planner
JE C
4 years ago
It may be worth doing both. I have found our council planners offhand over the phone but much more engaged in person.Good luck.
PRO
Paul Di Stefano Design
4 years ago
Hi Ash,

Ultimately, the council will make the decision. You can bring in whoever but all they will do will help you understand the ins and outs of the policies/ResCode clauses that your neighbouring development will be assessed against. There are aspects of planning that are black & white, and others that are negotiable/subject to consideration, depending upon what is being proposed. Running my eyes over the proposal, it appears technically reasonably compliant. They are not building hard on the boundary, the street setback is consistent with context, it's not an excessively high development in context and they have kept 1m off the boundary where they are within 3m of your north facing windows, and the 2nd storey setback appears in alignment with the side setbacks standard. The solar impacts are taken at the equinox, not at the winter solstice. You unfortunately won't get far asking for changes to the design that will ensure you have completely full sun all year round.

Have experience form both sides of the scenario - taken things to VCAT based on principle, dealing with objections to designs etc - and when push comes to shove it ultimately (unfortunately) will come down to compliance to the black & standards. As a Developer it's possible to potentially push the envelope and get approval for things that exceed the standards if there is no objection, as sometime the standards can be considered excessively or compromisingly limiting in a specific scenario. However as an Objector the best you can do is ensure neighbouring development to be fully compliant to Recode. You can't expect to get much further than that (unless the developer has a particularly kind heart, a quality I'm personally yet to see in this lot), even if you can argue there is some form of impact, such as reduced solar access to certain areas. If it's within the standards it complies and will be supported. If you really want to stand up for something you can take it to VCAT but it's expensive and a flip of a coin.

The approach we take professionally is prior to submitting a Planning application we endeavour to be fully transparent about what we're doing and reach out to neighbours to make sure that they are fully informed about the proposed development/design. If required take the time to clarify/explain the design and our design response to any neighbours and sometimes will meet directly with them to include them in the discussion. You have every right to object to something that is non-compliant, but understand that an objection based on something like "potential noise" will fall on deaf ears. The best one I've had is where we proposed a swimming pool in the rear yard of a new house, and the neighbour objected on the basis that "beach balls and pool toys could potentially be thrown over the fence".

Perhaps it might be worth you directly approaching the designer and requesting them to clarify any concerns ASAP. If you choose to formally object, it will hold the process up and developers hate delays, and so the designer should be responsive to mitigating this for their client. Perhaps get them to overlay the side setback profile limits on their drawings so you can see clearly whether it's compliant or not.

Best of luck

Cheers PD

www.pauldistefanodesign.com
siriuskey
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
Always keep council on side, with the help of the private Town planner you will be able to understand the floor plan and other details so that when you approach the developer you will clearly put your concerns across to them.

I have found in the past that Developers are approachable and are willing to discuss the build with you and even open to possible changes as they don't want to be held up by objections,

There's a lot invested in this development, the developer, Council and yourself all sand to lose or gain

ADVICE NEEDED - planning permit objection

oklouise

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