Hi Two's- stumbled on this post following your comprehensive reply on mine and just thought I'd get some clarity (sorry Dr Retro for hijacking!) but it seems now we have swayed towards the same fiber but the 80oz Charmeuse range. So going from what you have said, the higher the weight per square yard the better the performance and the less likely it is to flatten? We are concerned about texture loss and as you've mentioned the warranty doesn't measure it so i just wanted to know in your opinion- how long do you think we can realistically expect the plushness and overall appearance of the carpet to last?

Kezzle176 - please hijack away. I saw the 80oz "Charmeuse" as well, and I preferred its plusher look to the shorter look of the "Sublime" range. "Charmeuse" also seemed to have less tracking than "Sublime" when the sample was tested on the ground, but unfortunately is much more expensive. George, the carpet salesman I was dealing with had just installed "Charmeuse" in his daughters bedroom (and showed me the photo), so that is a fairly high recommendation, although the price is fairly premium for a new-technology nylon carpet.

Yes, price is a huge factor for us and unfortunately we were mis quoted by several lineal mtrs -the first quote for the Charmeuse was pushing our budget but we convinced ourselves that it was worth it...until they added the missing lineal mtrs and the price sky rocketed! Original budget was $6k, increased to $8.4k and now we are looking at $9.6k to do 3 decent sized bedrooms & their closets, walk in robe, fairly large games room and a hallway. But honestly, after days and days of revisiting numerous stores i just cant get how beautiful the carpet is out of my head- hubby and i agree- nothing is coming close to it but we are finding it so hard to justify $90 something per sqm! (Installed with underlay and ripping up of old carpet)

Kezzle176, $90 per square metre is a bargain. My quote is just for one room, slightly less than 16 sq.m, and including delivery, underlay, door trims and installation is coming in at $105 per square metre. No ripping out of old carpet in my case. I have also done all of the showroom visits and can't find anything as beautiful or comparable, which is how they can justify the price!

Hi Kezzle

You've got great questions....

Regarding the higher weight, if the yarn length is longer but the stitch rate (density) is the same then all you are paying for is extra bounce and extra thickness. It will still perform pretty much the same. If they have tightened the stitch rate then yes, it will be slightly better.

If you can give me the pile heights for each of the thicknesses I will calculate the density (measure the length from the backing to the tip of the fibre).

There is a rating system in Australia called the ACCS (Australian Carpet Classification Scheme). This is where manufacturers submit their products for independent testing to achieve a rating of eg Heavy Duty, Extra Heavy Duty with stairs etc.

Because this is an imported carpet, Signature haven't submitted it so are probably just copying the original manufacturer warranty.

I suspect the warranty of the Charmeuse is the same as the Cashmere?

Regarding the budget, we often achieve the same softness with a carpet by buying a thicker underlay, the absolute best quality we can find ( we use gold commercial grade rubber) so that it has both support and comfort.

Upgrading the underlay actually extends the working life of the carpet in most cases.

Take the original sample of the Cashmere, and see if you can get a better underlay under it and compare the walk on feel to the Charmeuse with the standard underlay. You might be surprised.

Regarding the extra carpet, can you post up a copy of your floor plan? I will check the quants for you. Preferrably with measurements showing if you have it (there is a reason for this).

Cheers

Hi Two's Company Renovations, I honestly cant thank you enough for all the time you are putting in to helping me with this! I am not sure where to find the pile heights- all my information is taken off the signature website. It might also be worth mentioning i am visiting another store today which exclusively stock another Signature brand called the Harlow, Bellafare which is 75oz (as apposed to the Cashmere Sensation (50oz) or Charmeuse (80oz)). I am just going to have a look and feel of the carpet and see if it evokes the same feelings as the Charmeuse as it is slightly cheaper at $85 sqm. I will attach the floor plans, we are looking at carpeting the following:

Games room

Bed 1 and WIR

Bed 2 and BIR

Bed 3 and BIR

Hallway
Dr Retro House Calls Sorry just double checked and the price per sqm on sale was actually $97.50

Hi

If you get a ruler and measure the height manually from the backing to the pile end that will be fine.

Also, can you post the bedroom plans?

Cheers

Oh bugger sorry, i should have double checked- i thought they all looked a little similar!

Hi Kezzle

Has the carpet shop discussed with you which way the carpet is being laid? ie where the joins are?

And it is the 4m wide version?

Also, you aren't doing the stairs?

Cheers

Hi Two's,

Not doing stairs- these have been sanded and varnished now. It is the 4m wide version and they havent confirmed where joins etc are going- they advised yesterday that they "managed to reduce the lineal mtrs required by laying the carpet a different way" but didn't clarify what they meant.

I just went to look at the other range- the Bellafare and although only 5oz less, in my very limited opinion is far inferior. Could immediately see how easily the pile would flatten - my fingers easily went all the way to the bottom where i could feel the stitching, and once removed you could see where my fingers were- Picture attached. If i have understood correctly this is because the stitch rate is less, and as you commented on the other post the denier has been reduced? If anything, although soft, it felt like a rug rather than a carpet.

Sorry i also managed to get the pile heights from Signature flooring themself- Charmeuse is 18ml and Bellafare is 16ml.

Hi Kezzle

This is a bit intricate but it should make sense...

The flooring industry has tried to move across from lineal metres (lm) to square metres. Normally carpet is 3.66m wide (12ft). It sounds horrendous to buy a 4m wide (15ft) carpet at $390 lm, but if you express it as $97 sqm it's not so bad.

Nevertheless, the flooring industry buys it from the suppliers in lineal metres and calculates the quantities in lm also.

The trick is to balance the number of joins vs the wastage when deciding the layout.

There is also a little trick in the trade where they crimp the quantity but that is for another day...

There are two ways of laying the carpet upstairs. The first way is front to back of the house ie 'down' the room in eg bed 1 as shown below. This way will mean you will have a join in bedroom 3 and two in the passage, 1 being in the line of the wir doorway and the other in the line of the bed 3 cupboard.

Here is a rough mud map...

I can't quite make out the measurements very well, so I have written down the assumed numbers in lineal (length) metres. You can change these if incorrect.

In the games room, you will have 1 join which you can't avoid due to the size of the room.

This will require around 22.9 lineal metres of carpet.... and at $97.5sqm it should be costing you about $8930. Alternatively if you were paying $9,600 then the real cost of the carpet is $105 sqm.... just like Dr Retro (and there is the trick)

If you turn it around the other way, you will have more joins and could do it for around 21.5-22.5lm depending on how many pieces are used in joins...

I would go into the shop and ask them to show you how they are installing it.... then crunch the numbers yourself...

There are about 3 or 4 ways this can be done so the above is just one...

Cheers

Hi Two's,

I really am not sure how to thank you for all the effort you are putting in to this, you have given the most helpful advice.

So, i have tried to understand what you are saying but all i am getting is that it should be $8,930 according to your measurements? They are saying they are getting a price of $9,645 off the same measurements above (of that around $380 is for ripping up and disposal) and have told me that they are giving me a sale price of $97.5sqm/$390lm. Are they having me on?

Dr Retro- i am so sorry this has turned into my private post!

Hi Kezzle

The below is the difference between a sqm and a lineal metre.

Are they saying they are using 22.9 lineal metres? Often a retailer or supplier quoting on a sqm will add fictitious (the extra is NEVER SUPPLIED) quantities to bring the price per sqm back up like this...

$97.50 sqm x 4 = $390 lineal metre x 24.75 lm for the rooms = $9,645

$105 sqm x 4 = $420 lineal metre x 22.9 lm for the 3 rooms = $9,618

Sneaky but effective for anyone not paying attention to the quantity being quoted vs the actual amount being supplied, particularly when larger areas are being done.

Without knowing the quantity they are quoting we don't know the real price you are paying.

Regarding the pull up, most shops that we know of do not charge for this, particularly where the smooth edge (gripper) is being re-used and a saving for the installer.

Yes, the sample in the pic does not look very tight. Is that an offcut or a sample? It doesn't look like the online pics.

To sum up and as I said, I would be sitting down and asking them to explain how they are laying it.... otherwise if they cannot provide a satisfactory answer then the maths above would no doubt be coming in to play. If that is the case I would go to another retailer supplying the same carpet and get a quote on the same thing...

Then it is just a matter of comparing the 50oz on better underlay vs the 80oz and choosing which one you like.

Dr Retro... thanks for allowing the hijack...

Cheers

Hi Two's,

As it were i went ahead yesterday and got some additional quotes done- same company different location (believe they may be franchise?) anyway, their quote came to $10,208 apparently also at $97.50 a sqm.

The underlay they are providing is 10mm- is there better underlay than that? In your honest opinion, given everything you know about the carpet, the measurements and your experience etc. would you pay $9,645?

Hi Kezzle

WOW! I was going to create a 'tricks of the trade' thread to explain how some retailers/concrete suppliers sneak extra 'quantity' that will never be supplied to bring the price up, but decided against it as it might be too controversial...

And here we have a perfect example.... it does NOT take over 26lm to do the rooms you want...

The 10mm underlay they are quoting could be one of about 4 different underlays from memory, but sounds like a foam.

If it were me, I would be buying the 50oz and using a gold rubber underlay, but I am old school and always prefer a rubber underlay with the action bac of the carpet. The 50oz on Gold or better won't feel much different to the 80oz... you would have to test it and see for yourself.

It really is personal preference though and you have to be comfortable with your decision. If your gut is telling you the 80oz, then spend the money and enjoy it...

Either way you will have made an informed decision...

Cheers

To anyone who was following- it became very apparent that the carpet place was sneaking in extra quantity, i think i will write a post of my opinion warning to double check before purchasing because its very sneaky!!! Two's Company Renovations & Dr Retro House Calls the manager of the carpet center called today and the price has been reduced back to the original quote of $8,400. According to their measurements my original invoice was supposed to be $10,070 which they "discounted" to $9,645 and have now reduced again to the original mention of $8,400. To say i am pleased is an understatement. Two's this would never have worked out correctly if it weren't for your advice & help so a huge thank you.

Hi kezzle

That's great! No problems happy to help.

Unfortunately it is prevalent not only in the carpet industry but also tiles, pavers, plastering, exposed aggregate etc.

Glad you had a win.

Cheers

Hi all, I was just reading your posts while doing a search on Harlow carpets - thanks to you we have now gone to the Charmeuse range. We've found a colour that we like and are now about to get quotes. Thanks so much for a really informative thread - I've learnt a lot from everyone! To Kezzle and Dr Retro House Calls - have you had the carpet installed and if so, what are your thoughts? Thanks so much!