Thanks, Solarventi! It's Wintery here today!

Wish I had that solar air heater now, dreading that electric bill!

We live in Melbourne Australia. We recently renovated and added (firstly all the insulation walls, floor, ceiling) an Australian made Solar Powered Heat pump. It is made by a company called Sanden - you could do a google search or see a great simple working plan http://iwantenergy.com.au/hot-water/sanden-heat-pump/ We have linked it to hydronic radiators We have a heat pump for both hydronic heating and hot water.

We have also added solar panels not for heating, for our power. We are not off grid as we will need to draw from the grid during winter, and will ad to the grid during summer when we make more than we use. Our Solar Panels are called Yingli Panda's - the company produce exceptional high quality pannels and have a great scorecard for worker safety/rights/pay and environmental practices - (crazy but many companies making panels have dreadful environmental policies look into it before you buy panels)

Thanks, Rachel, is the heat pump/radiator system expensive?

chookchook.

there are a couple of factors to look at.

How well orientated and insulated is your home? there is no point pumping heat into a building that won't retain it and the sun is biggest freebie on (off) earth so are you getting the most out of it?

once you've dealt with number one then you can decide how best to deliver heat.

Heat pump, radiators/hydronics and PV. Reasonable upfront cost but free to run once installed. Sun light converted to electricity via PV system, runs heat pump, makes hot water, flows around house, heats house.

Solar air heaters have a history of ineffectiveness in Australia due to the relatively low delta T (temperature difference) between inside and outside compared to North America or Europe with subzero external temperatures. The issue becomes the volume of warmed air you need; lots of it, moved quickly hence very large solar collectors. They can work but only when the sun is out i.e. not when it is coldest so you need a heat storage solution.

You are right to identify future gas price increases as a major source of concern. The challenge in your decision making is to decide the balance between upfront cost and running costs. There is growing evidence that house-buyers are now placing greater value on running costs so I would suggest that the investment is worth it both financially and in terms of human health and comfort.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do

It is interesting about the temperature difference.

Hi there Chookchook2. They are not cheep to purchase or install. (Are you in the Us? Sanded website will have an email address you could ask them, as it may be cheeper to purchase there.....In Australia the cost of living is a lot higher than the US, so market prices may result in very competitive prices there). The decision we made to go with this type of heat was three fold (1) we expect to be in this house for a long time (at least 10 years) and based on basic calculations it will more than pay for it's self. Basically we now have free heating after the initial outlay. (2) We decide this as we were renovating the home so it seemed prudent to do it at the time and (3) also wanted to move away from gas and electricity and onto clean energy. Take your time with the decision, better to get it right than to have to fix or make changes down the track. Have you got some good local Enviro home stores they may be able to give you some good information and advice. Good luck.

I'm an Aussie, in South Victoria. Gets cold.

Hi chookchook2, not too sure where Envirotecture got their figures from about solar air collectors being relatively low!!!, Australia has very high solar insolation levels, extremely high in creations areas. "The issue becomes the volume of warmed air you need; lots of it, moved quickly hence very large solar collectors. They can work but only when the sun is out i.e. not when it is coldest so you need a heat storage solution." This is incorrect in two manners, the air and heat should be slow to enable your house 'absorb' the thermal energy and heat into the structure, secondly - your house acts as heat storage i.e. similar to concrete floors and passive solar absorbance. So, the Solarventi supplies the heat and dehumidification during the day, drying and heating the whole house. The structures absorb this energy and slowly release it throughout the night and possibly following days if no sun. The greater the thermal absorbance - concrete, double brick etc, the greater the effect. The longer a solar air collector runs (installed) the greater the overall effect, dryer, warmer house. Isolations levels are readily available at www.bom.gov. A recent factual reading at our office is available here, "https://www.facebook.com/Solarventi.au/posts/459783190855163" April 27, 2015 -

43.6C and 20% RH. This is only a two square meter panel.

I hope this helps.

One other thing I forgot to mention is Europe has extreme cold and as such the outside air being heated is colder and the effect there is fantastic. Australia has lower cold extremes, but still cold and as such the internal temps are greater than Europe. We have a lot of satisfied and warm customers in WA, SA and Vic, not to mention ACT, NSW and NZ. All now living on free solar generated heat and internal fresh air ventilation. : )

Makes you wonder why it is not more common.

It still is common across the country, but with a government that knocks all sustainability efforts of Universities and low carbon business ventures, it is a struggle. To the degree that there is a phenomenal amount of solar business's have gone to the wall..

People need to join Solar Citizens, they protect the rights of users and prospective users.

A bit off topic, but might be good in an emergency

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-17/solar-invention/6552626

SolarVenti. I did not dispute the solar energy availabel in Australia. My experience has shown that solar air heaters (not your brand but several others) have never successfully replaced other forms of mechanical heating in homes.

The 43 degrees is great, and I agree that using well insulated tehrmal mass within a buidling to store the daytime heat is teh most effciient and sensible approach.

My issue (happy to be proved wrong) is that the amount of heat energy needed to raise the temperature of sufficient thermal mass to eliminate the need for other mechanical heating is greater than solar air heaters have previously provided.

So far as I am concerned it is a simple (quite complex actually) equation of volume of warmed air at temperature X, temperature/density/geometry of thermal mass, space volume, insulation values of building fabric and outdoor temperature (for heat loss calculations).

If you want to continue this discussion offline please give me a call.

You are welcome to continue here, if you explain occasionally for dummies like me.

The latest

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/energy-smart/renewable-energy-target-slashed-wind-farm-commissioner-to-be-established-20150623-ghvxl3.html

Chookchook Have you figured it out for your place yet? I too have been looking at which way to go re heating and solar panels. I live Central Vic hot summers freezing winters with sun. I have had a number of solar men out to give quotes I asked about hydro heating only one acknowledge me but he never sent the quote on. This is retro fitting a 90 year old weatherboard house, I will be removing old dusty insulation in the roof then replacing with new plus getting underfloor insulation. I am coming to the decision of putting electric heating panels instead of Hydro heating. I wrote to 2 companies in Melbourne not an answer from them. I don't remember at the moment who they were now as I did it on their web site a few months ago. A third company did reply but really wasn't interested, quote was over $12 grand around where I had expected but how the quote was written was a flick off. I was getting figures to make an informed decision on all my renovations not just one thing. I am thinking batteries to bank up my solar power will assist in costings but will wait until the costs of the batteries come down to do so. I have a gas heater in one room that has a fan this does a wonderful job of blowing dust around as I am now an asthmatic it is not so good. Besides it is running higher each year to use. I have booked marked all the above sites to study ; so I really appreciate you starting this thread.

Until we grow a money tree we are still looking at options, but we know we want solar something. It is hard to find good tradesmen and a wide range of materials in remoter rural areas. We are in that geographical situation, however I would say, most of these systems are modular, so you can just dip your foot in the water, say with solar hot water, and see how you go. In Grand Designs magazine they had an article on how some solar hot water systems are better for frosty areas because they have antifreeze in them. The Pros on here would know more about that.

Yes the price of gas is set to soar, because of export. It will be like the price of lamb. Remember when we could all afford a lamb roast on Sunday?

Yep, lamb was cheap as chips, every man's Sunday roast no matter what you earn. Thanks for reminding me to query about freezing as we get big frosts here. I have found there are rail-pushers trying to sell solar panels assuming me being a female and in the older age group I'm stupid, I'd believe anything they say. Am good at suffering fools, watching, listening to them fall on their faces

How your local politician feels about solar power, for Australians

http://solarscorecard.org.au

Im a little ole grey lady.... returned from the big smoke to Country Victoria where I spent my childhood... My parents were Europen Displaced people, so they learnt during the war about not wasting, and from their parents before that and passed it on to us.

I was lucky I was able to buy a 1940-50's cottage the structure is hardwood., The ceiling was insulated, the windows fitted correctly with no drafts [ old candle trick to check] Renovated the kitchen/bathroom area only to find all those wall were also insulated around 1990 am guessing the rest of the house is also as we have a wood heater which we havent had to use often but when we did, when we walked down the hall to the bedrooms they were warmer than the lounge area which was always comfortable... The builder hates the hardwood as has to work harder.

Installed SolarPanel for house, 5kw 18 panel, 12 of which are on the Aframe to pick up more in winter and 6 on the slight slope over kitchen/family/bathroom area. Only reason I installed them is because sun is free and we live near the coal mining area in Vic which I dont mind, Dont get a great feedback, but that wasnt the reason I bought the panels, they even in this winter which has been the coldest for the lat 19 years [so much for global warming - ps I did keep records of weather etc when I had my own business and the climate bit is a scam - there is no significant warming or rise in temps not according to my 15 years of personal business records] But even on these days which seem to be too many, of full cloud, I am still producing/getting more power than I use, so have not had a bill and have extra going back into the grid.

My Personal experience is to get your walls insulated [ whoops forgot I also got cladding and done in a a way that I could add insulation between original wall and cladding - and very little cost when you DIY and research on uTube and have other who are interested] Make sure all doors, windows are air tight.

We have just added light through ceiling [ looks like lazalight] so we get more warnth in kitchen - when I am too lazy to light the wood cooker, we have made horizontal blinds/slats to close this off at night.

The house in on sloped land, the owner before me filled under the house with some sort of soil/sand that fills up the lower end, and add insulation under the floor to the rest.

I find it amazing what people through out as rubbish, we did all the work at little cost, labour was and exchange....The materials were either free or so cheap from people throwing out perfectly good items [ this saved them tip fees]

And we are comfortable inside all year round.

TIP FOR THE PERSON who feels the cold like me.... get RED coloured undergarmets, they for some uknown known reason seem to retain body heat... it was and old wives tip and though it was rubbish, but works like a charm... sometimes too well, and have to stip as too hot...and that is without the heater, and being fairly sediatary doing computer work for others.

Now to source the isulation that is sprayed or brushed onto corrogated iron I saw in Britian but cant find in Austalia for the Original Shed/bungalow and garage to make in inside flat and insulated and I will be home and hosed.

Time then to relax and watch the sunrise come over the hills in the morning and play in my garden during the day..

PS. nope I am looking at adding a wind turbine to roof of shed etc as our area has more wind than sun.

Though I have to add, I cannot understand why the Australian Gov makes it so difficult to get solar or wind power, the mining companies have lots of land that is unusble for vegetation or housing, they could add wind farms on this land as wont have ill effects on people as none can live in that area or close....and this would help not only with the power supply but with lowering the cost of power.... DONT HOLD MY breath, TURNBULL snuck throuh an EMT scheme but under a different name.... on July 1 so watch our power go up after the debacle of an election dies down...

Hope all find cost effective way to improve the warmth in their homes.

Are you in central Gippsland, Janina? I'm in South Gippsland. Flipping cold now, huh.

LOL, that is being very polite, inside ok, but I have a garden to finish and a shed/barn to clear out... today was passable except when we thought the wind was going to blow the structure away, but yesterday freeze brass balls off the monkey.... pardon the old adage... This cold reminds me of my childhood, again outside, cause our house was cosy, but we had to go to school...... SORRY I never know which is South or Central. I am in Latrobe Valley where do you hail from... not those beautiful mountains I can see to the south????

Janina, if you go to my home page and message me I will tell you. I thought you might be in the valley, I shop there sometimes. Message me.

Hi Janina, if the sun shines, then you should be able to heat the house up. Solar air collectors will convert the sunshine into heat and transfer it internally -especially to the cold side of the house. However most importantly, it will clean your breathing air with fresh air and the best units will dehumidify your house and its structures. Where this helps is that the dampness will be removed, making it easier to heat with direct heat, keeping damp out helps to keep asthma, rheumatism and arthritis at bay. A good Solar air collector can be wall mounted, roof mounted (ceiling duct) or with pole homes, ground mounted and ducted in at floor level.

Looks great, Solarventi!

Thank you, sounds great for places that get a lot of sun in cold weather... My house is not damp, stuffy, I have stuck to the old fashioned idea with front and back doors facing, so everytime we are out of the house, all windows and door are open..... heating is not a problem. I think it is a fabulous idea, but would it really work in Victoria? maybe Northern NSW and above????

My Northern Side is warm on sunny days in winter and wood cooker keeps us warm the rest..... Would be interesting to see how much theis costs? just out of curiousitys sake....

Thanks for posting it was interesting to go to the site...

Many thanks

Hi Janina, it is great for heat by reducing the airflow. But good that you ventilate well and don't always open every window - try be target rooms, ie front and back door only will give you a stronger passage of air than all windows open. Or if you want to flush a certain room, open the door on the prevailing wind side and a window in that room. You will get a strong direct wind flow. Pricing -Solarventi's come in different different sizes ,therefore different pricing. Not as expensive as heat recovery systems and does not use contaminated attic air, only 100% fresh air. Some people have placed them sitting on their inner window cill to heat up that particular room space (quick fix-no installation costs), however most of the time they are mounted externally..

Must be late in day, and too many things done in too few hours.... I really didnt get the first part.... I just do what my parents did before airconditioning, heating etc works well for me. or so I think.... dont need to be any warmer in winter or cooler in summer, so I guess I am lucky.... I have seen some of those things that go over the window go get more passive heat, but I prefer my old fashioned truested inexpensive way..... Thanks for the info ..... might have to talk later if this cold really sets in for a few years LOL

Hi Janina, sorry you had mentioned about the cold and "little ole grey lady", as I know these products - I was trying to assist form that aspect.....I think I drifted..However, a bonus, you were looking for insulation as per UK style for the bungalow, this is the product I believe you were looking for https://www.foamedinsulations.com.au/, they also have an online store... E.

Thanks,Solarventi, I'm finding the info very interesting.

@solarventi, Hi, sorry, I didnt work it correctly, It is an interesting concept, but I am not getting it>>> bit slow... How do you heat up in winter in Vic when we get very little sun and the weather has turned Artic this year, Main reason I am noticing the cold, especially when working outside. I do have low blood pressure so feel the cold, but the red clothing next to skin works a charm. I would like to understand... I have seen on uTube where they DIY passive heat I liked the pictures but no explanation and these were using exisiting windows .. I this with gap at bottom on outside so cold air comes in and gap at top on inside so warm air into house.... but got to technical for me.

And I get confused, as hot air rises and I dont understand why fans are at the top in newer models not at bottom [of heaters] But I would mind understanding how it works..

Am going to check the website, TU very much. I have bats to put in kitchen reno but would like something to attach to the corrogated iron so there is no gap between iron and bats.

Appreciate your help and will check again on your site to see if I missed anything :)

Thanks @Elnaz T Interesting how things change in 8 years, Am no longer swayed with Solar BS, started getting bills shortly after last comment. The 60c per kWh feed in tariff was reduced from 60c to much less, and my panels are just more roofing, and I started to pay for $9 kW per day usage, the supplier cannot tell me how much of my power [if any] I use before they start charging. But I notice the BS and scam is working well for those still getting 60 c. Me I woke up

Thanks, Don't know what else I can do to reduce costs. I cut down in every way I can think of....

One-person household

Have wood heating, Don't have any electric heating/cooling

Do washing once a fortnight - Use wind as dryer,

Have portable gas unit to boil water,

fridge/freezer, separate smaller freezer. the smaller freezer will go soon [ I am eating less]

Reduced power used between peak hrs 3-9 pm and now turn off power when i am out of house. Which would be 2.5 days a week

have one light on at a time, 1 laptop, 1 mobile,

NO TV or radio.

HW is only turned on when I need which is about once a week HW has been reduced to around 60-65 heating

Can't think of anything else. But I can't see how I am using 6-9 kw a day, unless I am not using any of the power from solar panels

If you can think of anything I missed, would appreciate it.

BTW life is good, just don't appreciate liars, Everyone I talk to are dreading when the 60c FIT is reduced for them.

I had a similar setup and it worked well, especially with net metering. To get the most from your solar investment, I used the referral code for Octopus: bold-lion-941 when switching suppliers, which gave me a £50 credit. It made the whole process very straightforward and I have been happy with the savings on my electric bills through their net metering.