What is the basis of your partner's opposition to the sink and dishwasher being in the island? Do they want the stove to be there instead? Or do they want the entire surface to be clear of any appliances?

I wouldn't put the fridge in the larder. That seems like a very inconvenient location, unless you only access the fridge once or twice a day.

Thanks for your reply - he wants the surface of the island completely free... An option could be to locate the fridge sink and dishwasher recess to the left hand side bench space ... However the fridge would be in a walkway ....

Leave fridge where is and move stove to that bench. Move sink and dw to stove bench

Frankly, I can't understand someone not wanting the sink/dishwasher in the island - it's by far the most practical solution. A big empty island in the middle and everything else crammed in round the edges will look wrong.

The stove is on the wrong wall, too far from sink, and is not very efficient. I know, mine is like that it drives me nuts. If the sink is on the island where most of the prep is done you will be facing into the room and the cooktop should be on the rear wall with counter space either side. Put the fridge on the wall where the stove is now where it can be easily accessed without going through the kitchen. another option is to have a small prep sink on the island and your main sink and dishwasher in the larder if you don't want dirty dishes left on the island. Hope this helps.

I am with your husband! I HATE kitchens with the sink on the island. IMO it makes the dishes the focal point of your kitchen, if you have guests sitting at the island, the dishes are right in front of them instead of off to the side. I vote for leaving the fridge where it is, moving the sink where the stove is the the stove next to the fridge. Whatever you choose, don't sacrifice functionality for the right "look". You will regret it as it may appear nicer to look at but in reality, going into the larder to get to the fridge will be frustrating. Not to mention, your larder will have to be perfect all the time incase people pop over and grab something from the fridge!

Another question, what is to the right of the kitchen? Is this your living area? If so, then the back wall, where the stove is now, becomes the feature from that room. As a general rule of thumb, your fridge should be close to an 'entrance' as most people walk in to access that and there will be less intrusion. Most of the prep work in a kitchen gets done between the sink and cooktop. Have you considered, increasing the size of the island and rotating it through 90 degrees? I would then leave the fridge where it is and punch the door way through to the larder next to that. Then position a tall cupboard on the other side. I would replace the sink with an undermount, only in stone benchtops, as this will reduce the visual impact of the sink and add a high end tap as a feature. Leaving the stove and cooking wall as it is, with a run of overhead cupboards and nice clean lines. Good luck!

Thanks Gem'Appelle you are absolutely right about the stove needing to be the feature point of the room - I have attached a larger photo that shows the position of the kitchen . I'm going to relocate the stove to be facing directly across from the island and to be facing the open living area ... I'm tho King of keeping ( possibly ) the sink and dishwasher in the island ( regrettably ) and moving the fridge to the left hand side cabinet area .... Putting in an overhead cupboard above it and keeping open shelving in the space next to it .... What do you think ? Thanks !!

Hi Renae, Thanks for the larger photo. I would switch the fridge and oven over. You could still enlarge the island which will assist in making the sink and tap look less intrusive. Place the fridge closer to the Dining area, leaving a little more bench space towards the larder area. Above this the open shelves will assist in keeping it from being to much like a passage. Look at an undermount sink and the Abey NuQueen range has a drainage board which fits on top of the sink, again freeing up more bench space. Bearing in mind you can't fit this sink into laminate benchtops.

Great advice thanks Gem'Appelle - I have enlarged the island to 1m width (I hope that will be wide enough( and have at present an undermount sink, we have stone benchtops so the Abbey NuQueen sink should work, I shall check it out.. the idea of placing the fridge closer to the dining also a good idea . Thanks again !

No problems at all. Just with the width of the island. Are you going to have a double run of cupboards underneath? Are you wanting it for eating meals at, or more just perching on stools? The reason I ask is that usually a 300 overhang is most comfortable for eating sitting and eating at. The extra weight in going out by a further 100 might need more support under your island. You could counter this with just an extra void in behind the cupboards to help carry the weight.

hi Renae, my problem with central islands is that everyone walks through the kitchen work area and this is made worse when there is a direct passage to the laundry and garage..i've attached my suggestion which gives much more cabinet area, room for a big fridge and freezer, a stacked wall oven and microwave, island benches on two sides, room for a large central stove with feature canopy..

This is such a great idea Oklouise !! I have been trying to come up with an alternate configuration - thank you so much for your efforts !! This is definately maximising the space and increasing bench space , I have had concern about the traffic we have a large busy family and our current home has a kitchen island that everyone runs around constantly ( and the laundry is at their her end of the house at present ) my only concern with this design is closing off the large open living space with the back wall of the larder - the dining room runs into the lounge room ... It's a large rectangular space .. But I'm sure we can overcome this .. The more I look at this design the more I'm considering !!

attached variation: consider making the open shelves in the larder only 150mm (both side walls) and 300-450 deep (end wall) with about 90cm wide floorspace (NB make space to suit what you plan to store - measure all the cans and packet!)

then put a counter with open shelves on the dining room side of the larder with the open shelves and wall cabinets wrapping around the outside of the larder

I like the layout with the oven and fridge against the back wall and moving the larder, however having a U shape kitchen then stops the flow from the kitchen to the dining room. With the larder taking some of the laundry space, where will the linen cupboard go? Please post the layout that you end up going with!!

After thinking about the new layout, do you realise that you are also taking room from your games room as well as the laundry? I also think that a u-shape makes storage a little difficult and will make the space appear smaller. Also with the larder, my experience shows that if it doesn't feel 'comfortable' to walk in then you won;t really use the space well. The minimum space between walls really needs to be around 1100. This allows for a 300 deep shelf and 800 walkway. Just some points to be aware of when finalising your design. Hope this helps.

Thanks Gem'Appelle I have shown the alternate layout to my partner and he agrees with you, we have already reduced the games room and will be reluctant to do so again.... I think for the layout of the house Im leaning towards a galley style kitchen. I think at present the larder is only 1000 so I will speak to the builder - thanks for your advice again :-)

Yes galley kitchen best Need fridge closer to outdoors games rooms to stop kids walking all way thru to fridge and sink. I like cooking area in spot kids don't need to walk thru to get to fridge or sink wch is why have sink closer to fridge end of island and swivel tap so can get water from breakfast bar island without having to go into kitchen area

http://media.hia.com.au/enews/kb_enews/feb15/documents/Checklist_Design_Brief.pdf

Above is a design brief on the Hia website. Use it to establish your needs for the space to be functional.
You need to think about how you are going to use the space and where you will use all of the Appliances that you own.
My sister has what you call a large island bench. Everyone always seems to be gathering around it and it is so functional. It is deeper then the standard island bench.
Here is an example :

My sister also uses her diswasher as her drying rack.

Can you put the door to the larder where the fridge is on your original plan? That should give you more options for shelving or cupboards/benches in there. A cavity sliding door would give even more room.

Then put the oven/cooktop/rangehood beside that door - is there enough room for bench space each side?

Put the fridge beside door to games room, and then sink and dishwasher beside it, leaving the island free. You can still have overheads above here and around/over fridge.

Bring the island out a bit wider so you can have cupboards/drawers on each side - full depth on cooking side and half depth on the other. You can afford to take it right to the dotted line at the door way to the games room if you get stools that tuck right under when not in use.

The biggest change I would make is flip the porch and entry way to the other side, and then move everything over. That would give one main hallway instead of two. You could swap the left side work area over to the right, leaving a clear path to garage and laundry. This would give you a L-shaped work area and an island with only one main traffic path.

But that stuffs up access to master bedroom. Complicated. It is a tricky layout. No wonder you are frustrated. Do away with the larder and have some tall cupboards instead? Swap the living area and the kitchen around?

If like me you always have a few dirty or rinsed items around the edge of the sink, avoid placing it in the island.

I was the same, I didn't want a sink on our island. Biggest mistake I ever made. Other than cooking we spend a lot of time washing pots and pans etc. having your back to the family or the tv is a real pain. If we'd installed it in the island as my wife suggested 90 per cent of the problems would go away.

Have you thought about putting a deep (pot washing) sink in the larder and making your kitchen sink smaller? We have done this and find it reduces clutter in the kitchen. We kept the dish washer in the kitchen but hide our dirty wash up in what is now a butlers pantry

the biggest danger is the number of intersecting traffic patterns coming through a danger area with constant heat water flames opening doors and cupboards ........I would try swapping the kitchen with the games room and making the kitchen more closed to traffic and safer for cooks as well

I have a layout currently like oklouise has suggested, and I HATE it! Added to the problem is we have the old fashioned raised breakfast bar (or whatever it is called), which encloses our kitchen and makes it feel even smaller than it already is. We cannot fit more than 1 person at a time confortably, two is ok if working in different zones, but when you want something out of the cupboard where that 2nd person is standing, it can become nasty! Lol
I'm eventually going to change my kitchen to one with an island. In saying that, can I make a really out there suggestion? Put the sink and dishwasher in the larder?

I don't know about you, but at the end of the day, in my home, any free surface collects clutter, so it wouldn't matter if it had a sink, stove or empty benchtop. It would still end up full of daily junk! I've yet to see a house with kids that is clutter free.

Good luck, but personally I'd be sticking with what you've got. I've seen it in a friend's house (with a big curved marble top, sink is under bench set with no draining board) and that looked fine when dishes were done and put away.

Hi it looks like you have been given some good advice from the other people. However, Im just going to throw a curve ball. Do you really want/need the larder, I know a lot of people that have them and unless they are big enough they end up turning into kitchen junk rooms where old pots and pans go to die. as you can tell I'm not a big fan of them, I think they take up valuable living space. if you are unsure here is something a little bit different I came up with for your floor plan. (I'm assuming that you are still in the planning stage).

So what I have come up with is removing the doorway to the laundry and putting in a set of bi/fold doors via the garage. this will give you extra counter space to put your sink in the least intrusive place within the kitchen. The Island is doubled in size and again this will give you heaps of working space as well heaps of storage underneath, you will also be able to fit 4 - 5 stool/chairs around it. Also the other advantage of getting rid of the larder is it will open the room up a bit, ATM you walk in the front door and have a big wall in front of you and then you walk around the larder before you see the living/dining rooms and then you see the kitchen. I think that if you are spending a lot of money on your new home you want to see where that money is going. also by removing the larder you can use the extra money that you would have spent on it by upgrading doors or benches.

Also in reality how often do you go to the laundry, and having the laundry opening into the garage you will have plenty of room and not feel crammed into a little room off the kitchen. Anyway I was just putting a different option out there. I'm sure whatever you end up doing will be what suits your family the best. regards Lynne

Hi
My kitchen layout is very similar to your initial design. My sink is in my island and I love it.

Like your husband, I love a clear bench. Who is the cook of the family?

I am not sure about the idea that your kitchen needs to look like it is in a display home at all times with nothing to indicate that you use it regularly. I love cooking and still manage to put used dishes straight into the dishwasher and keep the benches relatively clear. Any open plan kitchen layout will have the same issue ie you will still see dishes on the sink no matter where you place it in the kitchen. Stay focussed on the function, walking from one side of the kitchen between the sink and cooktop is not efficient nor safe. Next time you are preparing a meal imagine you are doing it in your new kitchen layout as this will test whether it functions properly for you. Definitely keep your larder/pantry you won't regret it. More than 3-4 stools at the island can be over rated, most people prefer to sit around a table as a family rather than line up at the bench looking at the sink and stove. It sounds like you have always been on the right track, just try not to over think it.

As a side note, have you found the fridge you want & checked the measurements? It's a pet peeve of mine when the fridge sticks out from the bench.

Mine too.

Hi everyone - firstly thank you all for you advice. It really has helped. I tried relocating the larder and switching things around to suit however I ended up coming up with a new design ... switching the games room location and reconfiguring the kitchen ..... This has increased the overall footprint and has added a fair chunk extra.. but I think it will work... My partner loves the access from the garage through the laundry into the kitchen... This I guess is my only concern - that it will be awkward however we will be the only ones using this access - visitors will use the front door... We plan on having a big family so I like the idea of having a games room I can keep an eye on the little ones and another separate theatre area.......

Any feedback would be great!!

Im undecided about the sink and dishwasher in the butlers pantry - larder.... Im thinking of just putting in overhead shelves, for storage and cupboards underneath... And having taken on your advice about cooking - keeping the sink and dw recess in the kitchen island.....

I think the new layout looks great! It also gives you direct access for the littles to the backyard and closer viewing from the kitchen. The passge through the garage, laundry kitchen won't be an issue, as you described. The dishwasher is probably best in the main kitchen, depending on where you plan to store your daily crockery. Simply for ease of loading.unloading etc. Also when in the main kitchen, you can also be doing that while keeping an eye on your children. The extra sink in the pantry, a personal choice but the space might be better utilised as storage/benchspace. Congratulations, you're getting there!

On a side note, maybe turn the doors from the games room into barn styles doors to add extra architectural interest in the dining/living room?

Thank you very much for such positive feedback !! Gem'Appelle Designs :-) I really appreciate it as I was unsure about this new design I came up with. Yes I have thought about the dining and living room doors... We are having black frame windows etc. so I was thinking of increasing the double door entrance to almost full height .. Although I think barn style doors will probably be a cheaper option.. with less of an entrance space...

The barn doors can still be glass and full height, if you like, but I'm thinking that it might be better to be able to quickly 'hide' the mess when guests arrive. Also they don't take up as much floor space within the games room, leaving more area for storage of toys, games etc.

Hi Renae,

I found this old thread and I'm intrigued - have you built yet?
And if so, what design did you end up going with?

Would love to see some pictures, it sounds beautiful.