Just realised there is apparently a difference between polyurethane and 2pak??... if that's the case, then I meant 2pak

Thanks for the feedback Libby. Can I ask how long you've had the vinyl wrap for and whether you've had any problems with it near hot spots i.e. oven, kettle, etc?

Thank you @mldesign...

I agree that both products are probably comparable nowadays (pros & cons) as I have heard that vinyl wrap has come a long way since first hitting the market. I also agree that you can achieve a similar look with either products, and the main reason we had initially selected vinyl wrap was of course because of cost, as this seems to be the major differential between the two.

However, given that cost is now not an issue (as the builder is offering either options at no extra charge to those clients who are already at the "on-site" stage), we're wondering about this whole warranty issue as raised by the builder. Not surprisingly, their supplier is Laminex who offer a 7-year warranty on the vinyl wrap v a 10-year warranty on the 2pac. Although we don't know the finer details of it, based on the builder's indication, I believe that Laminex is failing to honour the warranty even within the 7 years based on a technicality (something along the lines of pull handles doors not being covered).

Putting that aside, we realise that in any event if a panel gets damaged it will have to be replaced regardless. Our understanding is that when a vinyl wrap order is placed the entire cabinetry for the one kitchen is made from the same sheet of vinyl to achieve a uniform colour, so I query what would happen if only one or two damaged panels need to be replaced and whether they'll be able to achieve a close enough colour match or at all, particular given this fine print in the warranty...

"...where, as at the date of notification of the
defect to The Laminex Group, the type or colour of the alleged defective
product no longer forms part of The Laminex Group’s standard stock range..."

However, if any of the 2pac panels get damaged (which we understand is likely as they can chip more easily than the vinyl wrap) are you more likely to be able to achieve a colour match with the 2pac when replacing those panel(s)?

I worked for the laminex group in the design centre, and was part of the team behind scenes and saw first hand the product, helped decide on the standard colour ranges and introduce new ones for the marketing manager

I designed many of the brochure images you see across the brands laminex, Formica and essa stone. That is my kitchen.

The warranty would be covered if the panel was not altered, the cabinet maker fitting handles, if in fact they are a top tab pull might have defaulted that warranty, and I'm surprised you would even be able to order a vinyl door and have it come off range in the timeframe of a single order, so I suspect your cabinet maker at fault over laminex??

Also. Vinyl colour variation is not due to sheet size application, it's not created that way, rather it's due to the substrate and environmental factors. Batch testing is done frequently enough to ensure colour match over large quantity, enou undetected variation may occur. 2 PAC doors have more risk of colour variation, a they are formula mixed, quite different to vinyl which creates colour without pigment inclusions. I am curious what colour you chose that is no longer available?

It seems a little hardto beleive a joiner would offer a product of considerable cost in lieu of rectifying your issue, not that I doubt your experience, just that it seems there am be an underlying reason for them to do that, toyour benefit ofcourse so take it.

I think my comment may have come across the wrong way, but I meant no offense... I have absolutely no issues at all with Laminex, in fact all our cabinetry finishes throughout the entire house is from the Laminex Group, vinyl/2pac and others...

No one's at fault... yet ;) ... the builder hasn't even ordered any of the cabinets yet, they were just alerting us to reports they received (presumably from past clients, cabinet makers, who knows, like I said don't know the finer details) as they should under our contract, and as a result offering us the option to stick to vinyl wrap or to 'upgrade' (using that term loosely) to the 2pac at no charge, if we want to...

Hence my design dilemma to make the choice between:

- keep the Vinyl Wrap in Polar White Gloss finish, or

- change to 2Pac in Dulux Lexicon Quarter (same as walls) in a Semi-Gloss finish

Obviously, we haven't had any issues with the warranty, but in anticipation of worse case scenario, just wondering what would happen if a panel gets damaged in say 5-6 years time (or more) and needs replacing, then what is our best option/decision making now.

I'm also curious to know:

- if there's any reason for the difference in the vinyl wrap 7yr v the 2pac 10yr warranties

- what you mean by "top tab pull" and if that's different to the finger pull handles (from the Laminex range btw) that we selected for all wet areas (other than the kitchen)

- why "albedor, tesrol and laminex in that order are my preferences"

Thanks again :)

I took no offense to your comments at all. I'm not swayed either, nor biased by the laminex group.

I'd myself go with the lexicon 1/4 to get that perfect match to your interior, polar white is very Starck, like paper, and I beleive is still in the core range???

As for the tab top handles, they are probably what your calling finger pull, if so they will be mounted on the top side of the door and you just use a finger to pull out the lip and they are almost invisible. THe next best thing to a shadow line or finger grip detail. If this is the case, that's why the warranty is void! The joiner will need to shave mm off and slightly rebate this handle to close properly. Any cutting not a vinyl panel voids it's warranty, as it's like cutting open vacuum sealed salami and returning it for refund!

Anyway they can avoid this by excluding this handle from offer, or anticipating its selection in the process before ordering doors, so they can reduce the door height by 10mm to accomodate etc, etc.

I'm not sure why the warranty is less than the vinyl door than the painted ones, I think your referring to colour tech painted doors? There is also crystal gloss wi a polyurethane finish.

Lastly, albedor and tesrol are Australian made vinyl doors, albedor has an extensive profile range of doors, one of the largest, a strong reputation and their service reps are well informed so specifiers always have a great relationship with them. Tesrol I like because they have great provincial accents or accessories like their capping moulds and elements to make a traditional kitchen quite grand a scale, usually only an optin for cashed up kitchens. They are based in NSW, but even in Melbourne, they always met our needs, although slitly dearer.

And laminex doors, take the lead off both of those companies, and made here also. They have a very strict quality control, and although vinyl is not their primary product, they do well for service.

There are many more worth mentioning, but I myself always ask the joiner who they order through, and ask for their vinyl brochure to select from.

If they are not made in oz, then ask for another product, or another joiner. No sense in saving cost on a product which relies heavily on warranty guarantee, replacement and service will be met easier and quicker locally than imported, and more important, our strict standards are regulated to monitor the use of arsenic and formaldehyde, and is not adhered to in many imported door ranges.

Thanks mldesign... it all makes sense now... yes, the polar white is still part the core range, and you're right, quite stark as well, I've always had my reservations about that colour choice... hubby likes all surfaces white & shiny, cabinets, tiles, the lot :/ so I let him have that one, but I prefer matt and/or textured surfaces (I went with the 'not so new' alaskan nuance finish everywhere else which I'm very happy with)... so in a way I'm glad this colour/finish change was brought up by the builder without us having to raise a variation... now I understand the whole handle issue, and you're right it is something the builder/cabinet maker should know/anticipate (maybe that's why the builder hinted that they've recently changed cabinet makers)... in any event, all our kitchen base cabinets have 'normal' handles on the door/drawer fronts so that won't be an issue... and yes, we couldn't afford the 'handle less' (aka finger grip) look so went with the 'finger pull (aka tab top) handles in the laundry, toilets & bathrooms cabinets, but they all have a 16mm shadowline between the doors and the benchtop so if I understood correctly, no need to shave off anything and therefore won't be an issue... anyway, thanks again for your time and most valuable input (and insider info ;) ... we have decided to go with the laminex colourtech (aka 2pac) in a semi gloss lexicon quarter :)

I'm glad to have cleared up some of it. Alaskan is very soft and has a beautiful feint texture. You will really love this installed.

Just to be clarify, your lexicon quarter doors will be 2pac, but won't be a laminex colourtech door, as colour tech is a range under the brand of laminex, and as a range they decide what colours areavailale, and 'offer' per selected colour range in the 2 PAC finish. Hence the name 'colourtech'.

Your doors will be bought in by the cabinet maker as raw mdf with a white primed base, and will be sent off to the painters to be painted in your specific colour finish.

Seems like you on top of things anyway, just wanted to point it out.

Good luck with it, I'm sure it will be stunning.

Makes sense, and noted

Pazz

I’m not much help to you there.

I lived with my first kitchen, the Vinyl for about 3 years. The cabinets that were above the oven and stove top I don’t remember them yellowing at all. This was a

Nobby’s kitchen so definitely not the top of the range kitchens, I don’t know even if Nobby’s still exist.

Three years is not long to see how well it stood up. There was certainly no damage to cabinet doors or draws.

Note that I am now talking 20 years ago.

We had the good fortune to build our second house from scratch and I wanted to go with the vinyl again but for some reason, I can’t remember why, it was not

possible.

My current polyurethane kitchen is almost 19 years old to the month and yes it has stood up very well to 3 growing boys.

We are looking to replace it soon as well.

In both kitchens I have had the same laminated bench top. A granite look alike. I have to say it has lasted incredibly well and people used to ask was it granite.

After 20 years it has 1 small chip in the top of it and a tiny burn hole where the hot ash of some incense I was burning fell on to it.

I will definitely be considering laminated cabinets as well when we get around to replacing things.

One thing I do notice with the polyurethane is the inside of the cutlery and pots and pans drawers are quite chipped and I remember that’s something I liked about

the vinyl, it gave a nice protective covering over the edges.

I think 20 years ago the one problem with vinyl was you could not have a straight edge profile on the cabinetry. Edges had to be rounded. But that was 20 years ago

and I’m quite certain with todays technology anything is possible.

I’ve just remembered you can. Kaboodle who supply Bunnings hardware have a vacuum formed perfectly plain door.

I don’t know how much research you have done but take a look at Allplastic’s P/L website. They have a product called metalline. Which is an aluminium veneer. They also

have lots of interesting products. Especially the product Staron manufactured by Samsung. Great product for sinks, baths. Used a lot in kitchens as it is a very compact

product that cleans very well. So hygienic they use it in hospitals because the germs can’t get into it.

Another interesting product for bench tops, shelving etc is called Paper Rock. Made from recycled paper. Very new on the market. Search paper rock Leichhardt, Sydney

and you should find it.

Don’t forget to have fun with this process.

Libby

Thanks Libby.

We have no issues at all with our kitchen bench top as it will be an engineered stone which we're very happy with.

We were only undecided about a vinyl wrap v polyurethane finish for the kitchen cabinetry doors/drawers.

But your comment... "My current polyurethane kitchen is almost 19 years old to the month and yes it has stood up very well to 3 growing boys"... is most reassuring, and cements our decision to go for the poly finish.

Thank you again :)

Our kitchen guy strongly recommends vinyl wrap over polyurethane. He says it is far more durable. My concern is what happens if the colour choice of the vinyl wrap is eventually discontinued and we need a single door replacing due to damage in the future. Which is the better product? Most of the large kitchen companies seem to use polyurethane whilst our kitchen man strongly prefers the vinyl wrap- he is happy to use polyurethane if we want it. We are very confused. Please help.