davegrg123

Any advice on my new floor plan?

davegrg123
October 24, 2017
last modified: October 26, 2017

Hello! Would appreciate some fresh eyes and advice on what to do with our weird floor plan. I have big plans with the idea of doing things in stages, looking firstly at kitchen/dining/living area, with outside and a new ensuite to come later.

It's a classic 60's triple fronted cream brick veneer, which we love, but which we want to open up. The best idea I can come up with is attached. Only things I am not sure about are that that our new dining area and kitchen table would be blocking the flow out into the backyard.

Note that the main wall between living and kitchen area is planned to stay, with an opening put though some cabinets so you can see though, but not walk though. Also note that I am trying to avoid actually extending the footprint of the house.

Any ideas welcome, what would you do?

Thanks!

Comments (139)

  • davegrg123

    Thanks Sirius. I'll digest this over the next few days and at the same time get precise measurements. This whole thread has been so valuable for me! I'll try to summarise everything here into three options in 3D models. Thanks so much everyone, especially Siriuskey and oklouise

  • oklouise

    ignoring the kitchen and laundry for the time being i'm wondering if something like this could be an option for future ensuite without extending the building

  • davegrg123

    I've checked the measurements thoughout kitchen and laundry. They are all right except, as you pointed out, the laundry length is actually 3.14m, leaving room for the door. The hallway measurement is right, but it doesn't show the door. Here is a pic, which shows the wall space as 50cm from the east wall to the start of the door frame, which I am hoping could be used for a pantry, depending on the final plan. Thanks for your help, as always!

    In regards to the ensuite, that is a good option. i neglected to tell you that we have actually already put in a robe at decent cost along the north wall, so I am hesitant to undo that right now! Will cross the ensuite bridge later. My order of reno is 1. Kitchen/dining/outdoor. 2. Studio with bathroom and kitchenette. So that will give us the second bathroom, which we mainly only really care about for guests right now. Thanks for the option though!

    So far, which is your favourite option? I'm thinking your original option 3 but I'm keen to tease out this latest option with the laundry reno too.

  • davegrg123

    Thanks again for your help. Here are my two leading options at the moment. I'm vexed, both are good, but both have compromises! Which would you pick? Or should I/we keep thinking?

  • oklouise

    my favourite options are always the ones that have the least amount of changes for the biggest improvement and now you're considering a future bathroom/kitchenette (reuse original kitchen?) for the garage studio i suggest you forget trying to squeeze in an ensuite, tidy up the existing excellent bathroom and laundry, aim for a better quality finish and install the galley kitchen with the simple stacking door out to a generous deck ..my latest suggestion rearranges the toilet, laundry and old back doors and creates pantry storage and fridge space for the kitchen with the "optional" space able to be used for laundry, pantry, freezer, hobby, ironing sewing, storage etc and the simple galley kitchen has plenty of storage and counter space (island is 3m x 900mm) and shallow full height pantry cabinets beside the fridge and there's space for your splashback windows into the living area (although i'm not sure if they conflict with the old sliding door between dining and living but that's another issue to think about..)

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  • davegrg123

    Thank you oklouise! This is fantastic, as usual. I do think this is the most achievable and I the stacker doors are amazing. I think it's down to these two options. I'll update the models and ponder it for a while. Thanks for all your help. My head hurts and needs rest now.

  • oklouise

    this process is the cheapest and least stressful part of renovating so you may need to plan for lots more head hurting times "ahead" but careful planning and research will achieve a better result and you need to remember that our suggestions will always be affected by family circumstances, climate and different experiences but your home needs to suit the way you want to live without drowning you in extra debt

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  • siriuskey

    I can see you will be having a busy weekend. Rnovating is fun but can be stressful We have been watching neighbors across from us over seeing their extensions, it's difficult to watch as after all the quotes and advice they had it appears that they didn't understand the plans and are now making changes!!

    Anyway I have re drawn what I think would give you a lovely home going into the future and also aware of trying to keep costs in hand.

    Kitchens and bathrooms sell houses! so it's important for you to keep this in mind for when and your renovations and any one else who might consider purchasing your home.

    In my layout I have closed the opening between the living /dining, leaving a larger opening between the kitchen/living that can be closed off when needed.

    The view from the living room into the kitchen when entering doesn't have either sink or cook top in view, ie any mess is not on display.

    I have placed the fridge and double wall oven to the left of the sink for easy access from the kitchen/alfresco/retreat.

    I have purposely placed the fridge on the end which will accommodate what ever fridge size you or a new owner may have, this would still be built in with an end panel and cupboards over both the wall ovens and fridge.

    I have placed a small walk in pantry off the kitchen which can have floor to ceiling height 30cm cabinets on the left hand side, at the end under the window you can have a wider cabinet , I don't see a need for another sink as I have already suggested two in the kitchen and by placing the laundry sink opposite the kitchen/laundry doorway this can also have duel purpose, ie Xmas extra drinks which can be accessed from the Alfesco with ease, a small fridge could be included.

    I love the width of the passage way entering into the kitchen and think it would be a mistake to reduce this.

    The sliding door off the dining is in a great position for the new Retreat/garage, this could have a breeze way built between both buildings, this also gives access to the outdoor space from both ends of the kitchen/dining

    I have tried to give you what I consider a great family space along with maximum storage



  • oklouise

    siriuskey's plan is excellent but unfortunately the depth of the kitchen turned out to be is narrower than the original RE agents' plans and i couldn't squeeze in the laundry and pantry doors from the kitchen but what about this variation...i think the window wall has to be demolished and rebuilt whatever you choose so you'll be able to size the new servery window to suit and rebuild the gaps and fill in the old kitchen door with suitable cladding

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  • siriuskey

    Looks like we both got caught on that one, I would still go with my plan with a small change which gives you a walk in pantry combined laundry.

    The island doesn't work at 750 deep as you need 300 to sit up to which would only 250 cabinet.

    The island can be made as is 900, or 900 with sit up to one or both ends, 300, that would still give 4 x 600 pot drawers, 2.400 or with the sink 3 x 600 pot drawers and one 600 cabinet to take that.

    I would still be keeping the opening to the Alfresco as that's a unique feature to your house and selling point



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  • siriuskey

    Sorry but I had another thought and forgot, the windows in your dining area are perfect for Banquette dining (also provides great storage for toys etc.





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  • davegrg123

    Thank you both so much. This completes an awesome option with the kitchen on rear wall. I will model these. So to summarise the thread, I am now with two solid, clear options which i will model 1 with kitchen on internal wall, 2 this option with kitchen on rear wall.

    If I include the first option which you both suggested, with the kitchen on the north facing walls, I'll have three. I'd prefer not to fill in the walls due to effect on street appeal, and also don't like the idea of cabinetry visible in the windows. Perhaps I'll revisit oklouise's version with a u-shape retro kitchen on the north facing wall, which I liked. Then I may have three options/models. Once I've refined the models perhaps I'll put them to a vote in another thread to help me decide!

    THANKS SO MUCH.

  • davegrg123

    @siriuskey! Yes! That is what that is called, Banquette dining! Thanks! My wife suggested this along time ago! Thanks!

  • siriuskey

    Yes it's great and very Retro, American diners etc. great use of space with storage, I forgot to add dining chairs on the other side and end of the table, these can be removed when not being used, This setting works really well with your low windows. cheers

  • davegrg123

    I wonder if I could make the island even bigger, by having the banquette dining? 3.6m? And I could put the cooker in the island. Having the cooker in the island is not my preferred option, but I'm not sold on having it shoved in the corner.

  • siriuskey

    You could already have the oven in the island. In my plan you could swap the wall oven and place the cook top on that side, I will show you what I mean later.

    I thought it was a good idea to have zones with the cooking to the right and the sink to the left for hot water etc to be safely disposed of from cooking, or visa versa.

    The cook top could have a range hood of your choice above it

    If you were to make the Island longer that would most likely take up space for the chairs that sit up to the Banquette table, as it is there is space for your little ones to be in that space while accessing the Alfresco/play/ out door space, which they will as they grow older.

    Would love to see what you come up with, you are very talented with your drawings in 3d but I would also like to see 2d. cheers

  • annb1997

    Just looked at siriuskey's new plan and thinking the door from deck into laundry could be solid lower half with glass upper half. This would enable the person opening the door to enter to notice if someone was exiting the WC, and vice versa. That way no mishaps.

  • annb1997

    Great thought abou banquette dining in front of window!

  • siriuskey

    agree the door opening into the laundry is difficult, if the kitchen door is removed this door should swing out and back to the wall

  • siriuskey

    Dave I have considered what you said about cooking in the corner and have moved the cook top to the island, the same as what i have and love it. You can either purchase a suspended stainless range hood or have a suspended rectangle box with a extraction fan and down lights installed in it, you can have it as long and wide as you like.

    I have also changed the laundry door to open outwards

    Have you considered setting up the garage as a Media room, everyone seems to want one, along with accommodation cheers




  • davegrg123

    Thanks Sirius! We are really loving this general layout now. The only thing we can't quite decide on is exactly this, the stove top. I think the solution is as you have suggested, in the island, but my wife is untrusting of this. She says due to safety, but I am perhaps thinking maybe it's just too unconventional. We will need to keep pondering this, there's always a compromise somewhere! I spent a fair amount of time modelling some detail on this floor plan in the following. What does everyone think now they see it alive?


  • davegrg123

    Sirius - In regards to the garage - that is now 'stage 2' of the renovation, after kitchen/dining. Actually before this thread my loose plan was to remove it and replace with something smaller, but oklouise included some great ideas in her first floor plan. So now, my plan is for a studio with small kitchenette and bathroom. Purpose is for me to work from home in peace, and a self-contained 4th bedroom for guests, also (hopefully) adding significant value to the home. I'd actually be interested in yours and other houzzers thoughts on a floor plan for the garage studio, but it probably warrants a whole new thread!

  • siriuskey

    The Brick Garage is an added bonus, you could check with council to see if you would be able to change the roof line for an attic bedroom.

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  • siriuskey

    Re the cook top in the island 2 things, you thought you might like to try it as you mentioned not liking being stuck in the corner.

    An island cook top works really well as long as you follow the rules for every cook top and "not allow pot handles to hang out so the children can't grab hold of them", it would also be a good idea to have a small sink in the island for moving between both.

    The photo below gives and idea of a suspended range hood light unit. This over the top because it's hanging from a very tall slopping ceiling, most of these units have 4 hanging supports with power threaded through on of them.

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  • siriuskey

    I have re drawn the cook top in the corner which I think is a great cooking zone, you can arrange the sink closer if you would prefer that, this photo shows a similar situation of being in a corner, but your kitchen would feel more open as you have your alfresco window to the left




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  • siriuskey

    Your separate pantry on the kitchen wall could be set up like this with appliances


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  • oklouise

    your latest 3D images look excellent but i suggest that, as the whole back wall will need to re rebuilt to accommodate the new sliding door and servery windows it would be easier to decide on the kitchen arrangement first and then add the new window and door openings to suit and then "patch" the leftover gaps and render or clad the whole new back wall to cover the patches...in this way the servery window need not be as wide as the combined original windows (2400 wide in this plan) and would allow better wall space for the fridge and stove at either end of the kitchen without encroaching on the dining room (keeping the dining room door 1800 wide focuses the walking paths, allows for wall space and more flexibility for the furniture)...i also strongly suggest that the kitchen island needs to be only 75cm (with the stove in front of the old kitchen door) to allow more generous walking and stool space (the 30cm knee room can be allowed along parts of the island with 45cm or 75cm cabinets or drawers accessed from either side) the 600 & 900 are suggested widths for each section of the counter

    btw very happy to have opinions about the old garage but you must first clarify options for a garage in the front yard by confirming legal set backs with local council and posting a siteplan with measurements of your own and the neighbours' homes from side and front boundaries

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  • siriuskey

    I did mean to mention that as per my floor plans I would not keep the opening between the dining /living room as this will allow better wall space in the living room and also in the kitchen/ dining which is important.

    Having a Banquette setting allows more space and better flow in the kitchen dining, additional chairs can be stacked and moved away from the table which can pushed back towards the seating, which will allow space for small people to share time with you.

    Cabinets sizes can be finalized once you get close to deciding what layout you want. Attaching a photo of a modern take on a retro kitchen



  • siriuskey

    Sorry Dave, more info for you, 60cms is the recommended space per person, so the 2400 opening will give good seating for four stools, which I think is the correct number. I have added a double oven next to the fridge which can also house a MW. but that's just one idea, you can have a single under bench oven if you prefer. In my last plan I did forget to add back the small sink ,cheers

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  • Shaun Clancy

    what about moving the garage to the laneway side of house and then you recover the side of the house for garden or recreational purposes

  • siriuskey

    Hi Dave, hope you are enjoying your weekend with the family, it will be excellent if your dream to work fromhome happens, what do you do (you don't have to answer that)

    I just wanted to reassure you that you won't have to re build the whole back wall, having 3 older brothers who were builders helps.

    At the moment across the back wall of the kitchen/meals/dining you have

    two kitchen windows 2.4? that will be removed and with adjustment perhaps a new lentil they will be replaced with the new Bi fold windows.

    The only other opening at the moment is the single kitchen door which will be bricked up, using bricks from the newly opened up double sliding door from the dining area.

    This wall will then need to be either rendered to cover up these changes, or using timber cladding that you might like to use when you remove the garage door, The old garage with attic mezzanine level bedroom could have the same cladding or render,

    Your new Carport/garage will also need to use the same finish.

    On another note and from an old brickie you could reuse the bricks that are removed to make the doorway into the dining room, done well you won't even notice the changes to the brick work when bricking up the old doorway and any patching around the window if needed. cheers

  • davegrg123

    thanks all!

    oklouise - thanks for pointing out the option to change the window size. Figured it would be more costly, but you are right, we are rebuilding it anyway! I'll keep that in mind.

    In regards to garage options - i'm definitely not looking to put anything in the front yard, set back is an issue. Mainly because of cost and street appeal, but also it's just not possible. All the houses in my street are the same setback as ours, no garages in front. Keen to starting thinking about a great layout in there for: studio, double bed, kitchenette (very small, just the basics) and small bathroom (again just basics). Also want to keep a single garage in half (or approx half) of the space. I'll post some more pics soon.

    Sirius - I actually really want to keep the existing opening in the living at its a really cool frame with shelves from the original place, that we love. I think it still leave space for the banquette. See the attached picture.

  • siriuskey

    I think that would work perfectly with the banquette, love the floors and your retro furniture

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  • davegrg123

    oklouise - thanks for the latest floor plan! I trust your opinion so I'll place the cooker on the wall and stop thinking about it! I was wondering about island depth. Inclination is to always push things to be as big as possible, but I don't want to be cramped. And given that sink and cooker will not be on the island, I'm sure 75cm will be more than adequate. Thanks.

  • davegrg123

    One more question to you all - given the latest ideas on renovations that we are proposing in these latest floor plans (kitchen/dining/lving), what do you think my budget should be? We are not going to go over the top on kitchens. e.g we are happy with laminate bench tops for their retro feel. Not including the cost of the decking yet either.

  • oklouise

    after writing a long winded answer based on our experiences i changed my mind and suggest you should start with your basic plan and approach several builders for quotes to do everything and, using that quote as a base line, research how and where to economise.. the best builders are usually busy but if you're not in too much of a hurry to wait for a better result the waiting time can be spent researching every individual item that you'll need to choose eg will a $14 hollow core internal door suit you as well as a $200 solid core door or can you recycle doors you already own (the difference in price could pay for eg the kitchen taps) what is the real cost of the laminate kitchen? what about DIY flatpac cabinets? is a cheap sink as good as an expensive one? ...having this knowledge will give you some control over last minute cost surprises and a HOUZZ post asking about cost saving ideas should encourage an avalanche of suggestions...my favourite suggestion is to keep as much of the original as possible without too many custom frills..btw seeing the photo of the gorgeous room divider with the cavity slider you need to understand that planning the etxra double cavity slider in that same wall (between kitchen and living) means that the new doors will interfere with cavity for the existing door and something will have to compromise..

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  • davegrg123

    Thanks oklouise. That's a sensible response to a ridiculously broad question of mine. Now the search for builders starts... btw in regards to the room divider, yes I realise we'll probably have to lose the actual door. I like the divider without the door anyway! Thanks for all your help.

  • davegrg123

    siriuskey - the last picture you posted here - do you have any details of the kitchen? i.e. where is it, who made it? We love it.

  • davegrg123

    Hi all. Just wanted to say, I'm amazed with the help I've got from this thread, especially the major contributors - oklouise and siriuskey, thank you so much. We've pretty much landed on a final design, and it includes so many things I would not have thought of by myself, like the serverey window, the banquette seats, pantry locations, fridge locations etc, and also the a workable plan to incorporate a studio using the existing garage - so, thanks so much!

    Today I went to a kitchen designer in Melbourne for an initial chat, I actually took in the latest floor plan (oklouise's one with measurements). I asked for their opinion and they thought it was great as is suggested. It was so handy having it there!

    So... thanks everyone, especially oklouise and siriuskey!

  • oklouise

    saw this photo and thought of my suggestion for different cabinet depths for your island and this is how it can look without knee space the full length of the island

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  • davegrg123

    Thanks oklouise! Can you also recommend any kitchen sellers/builders? While I like the idea of going fully custom, reality might have to prevail at some point. Any idea of makers of good flatpack or just realatively affordable kitchens that would work well in a mid-century vibe place? I like the pic here for example!

  • oklouise

    the kitchen cabinets are a very small component and come much later after the major work is completed....NB because there are big holes to knock in walls that need to be fixed asap (and you said that you have never renovated before) first ask council if you need a Development Application (probably ok but you must make sure) and then i very strongly recommend that you invest in a builder to take responsibility for organising the crowd of people who need to arrive in the correct sequence to do the major demolition and rebuilding including doors, windows, ceilings, architraves, skirting, moving electrical wiring and plumbing up to "first fix" and then the kitchen cabinets (that you have been quietly assembling out in the shed) can be installed and the plumber and electrician come back and install the taps, sink, dw, oven, power points etc and then you will need to paint and install new floor and window coverings (and start the planning the next project)...all this is possible to arrange as a qualified owner builder but very difficult to do without some previous experience while living on the premises as well as trying to earn a living and look after a family...the last plan i posted can be used trial the kitchen planners available on line for flatpac cabinets ...but first make a final plan, a list of exactly what you want under the headings of 1. demolition (knock out opening for sliding door in dining room) remove old kitchen windows and door, create a doorway between laundry and toilet 2. what goes in the new holes?? 3. etc etc and starting asking builders for quotes

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  • siriuskey

    Hi there Dave, sorry for not responding sooner, I have been a bit unwell. I would like to add the following ideas.

    1) You mention going to a kitchen company and showing your current kitchen plan, the better thing for you to have done would to have taken your floor plan with measurements and asked them what they would suggest, as long as they didn't want to charge you. This way you would get more ideas, not just them politely agreeing hoping to get your business, and why not,

    2) I would contact several builders to come on site and give you their ideas of what needs to be done and advise if you would need to involve council and the building costs involved in doing this. The builders will have their own trades electrical and plumbing that work as a team

    3) You mention flat packs, they are a great option and can save you a lot of money, Bunnings will do a kitchen plan and cost in store at no charge, Ikea will do the same but not sure about any charges. You can also go online to both and work out a plan, but I would strongly suggest you speak face to face them as they know their product.

    Bunnings run in store programs where they show you how to assemble their cabinets, both stores have video tutorials, believe me it's worth watching as flat pack anything can be a nightmare.

    If you can assemble your own cabinets in your own time it will save you a.lot of money, starting sooner than later would be a very good idea

    1. I didn't get up to mentioning in planning the layout of your kitchen that the larger the cabinets you use will also save money, ie 2 x 900 as against 3 x 600, the cost per unit plus instead of paying for 3 cabinets to be installed it's 2. It's also makes for a simpler looking design. Most of our Bunnings kitchen is made up of 900 units 2 x Drawers & 900 units 3 x drawer. The exception is 800 cabinet for the sink.

    5) Cook top, I would strongly suggest you work a 900 into your kitchen (this would mean having to use a smaller cabinet either side or just between the cook top and the wall). 900 cook tops give superior space to use especially when using large pots/woks and fry pans, they also help to protect laminated bench tops from accidental put down and burns,

    6) Range hood, the best look for your kitchen wouldn't be a large stainless wall mounted unit and that's good news as the intergrated ones in over head cabinets would not only look better, give more storage and would cost less.

    7) The Island, you have been trying to decide what size, well if you don't have plumbing installed, the island can be free standing with or with out plinths and can be moved if you decide you need more space. You do need to have a couple of power points but make sure they have a longer connection.

    Our Island is 2.7 x 1200 and has both a cook top and oven with power points and can be moved approx 500m in each direction due to having longer connections.

    8) Bench tops, you mention laminate due to cost, we had that problem what with the size of the island. So we went with Plywood (not Marine) We went to Mr Plywood who when the next delivery came in chose a piece with a beautiful grain, had it cut to size and delivered. The plywood sheet came in a 3 meter length but not all do, we had enough to do the sink bench and a top for a tressel table & legs my better half made. cost with delivery 2hrs approx $400. We did a shadow line bench top which had a smaller size white set back under lay. You need to use a good two pack pot sealant on the Plywood.

    Finally I don't know where I got the picture of the retro coloured kitchen cabinets, but look online at both Bunnings and Ikea

    cheers


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  • annb1997

    So glad you are feeling better, siriuskey. You were missed. :)

  • siriuskey

    You could a similar look to the photo I posted earlier by doing this, scroll to the bottom. https://www.kaboodle.com.au/design-blog/got-a-favourite-colour-paint-your-own-doors


  • siriuskey

    Thank you annb, that helps to make me feel better x

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  • davegrg123

    thanks both for the detailed answers. as always I am blown away! I have the first builder coming along for a look and initial quote on Friday, will see what they say. Thanks again.

  • siriuskey

    Hi there Dave,

    Something for you to keep in mind, I love builders and from my experience they are good at what they do, build, they are not designers, so take on board and consider everything very carefully.

  • Andy Pat

    Be careful here Dave, you are in danger of undertaking half baked ideas with no overall flow or rationale..sorry but what I mean is you are likely to get a kitchen that sort of works, outdoor areas that might not and a garage that might be moved. A proper design process will look at all these issues and then work how to stage it. Detailed drawings can be done when builders are engaged. You will get a much better result and money will be saved in the long run.