I have a 7' by 10' bathroom . On one 7' wall is a vanity with two bar lights (each with two bulbs) , one over each sink. The shower and toilet are by the other 7' wall. Room has two windows. How many hi-hats should I have? Could one strategically placed be enough?

My recommendation would be the same as what I specified for craigboat (above).

Re: warm white vs. cool white

I am speaking specifically about the LED recessed lights that I showed the specifications for (above). In my personal experience, the cool white in this product produces a pleasant clean white that looks especially good with white tile. It is also just fine for applying makeup as it approximates daylight which is actually quite cool (except for early dawn and late sunsets which are very warm).

I prefer the 4" lights because the holes are smaller and the effect is more modern. Early recessed lights were huge, and I regard the gradual shrinking of them to be a positive trend. The lights I specified above are only 1/2" in thickness so the light source is right at the ceiling surface and the beam is able to spread wider than a fixture with a recessed bulb.

I think the lighting should be placed exactly where you need it, rather than placing it in the middle of the room (where in the past we would have put a flushmount fixture). That's why I always have one or (ideally) two recessed lights close together and centred over the sink. I might put one just in front of the toilet too, so if one liked to read while enthroned, the light would shine down on top of the reading material.

I don't know the quality of the light in your shower, but I'm guessing it won't be anywhere near as bright as the LED's that I specified. If it's not too late, I would put in a pair of LED's over the shower, and move the fan to the centre of the bathroom ceiling (with no light).

Note that these are general instructions, and more light might be recommended for certain situations. I've incorporated directional spots to highlight artwork, especially in powder rooms. Lighting is one of the most important things to consider when you're designing a bathroom and now when the room is under construction is the best time to address it. Best of luck on your renovation.

Thank you Cynthia! We were originally going to do a light in the shower with a separate fan outside of it, but decided on this configuration (we will also have a separate fan by the tub) to maximize the effectiveness of the fan and also at the suggestion of our contractor. I know the light will be different, but I've lived with a single non-LED light in the shower for 17 years and found it sufficient, plus we have the same light/fan combo installed in our second bath so I know how much light it gives and I feel it will be adequate. The lighting isn't really going down the middle of the room so much as sort of behind the vanity - ends up middle-ish because of narrowness of room - and I wanted to avoid having the recessed lighting directly overhead or in front while standing at the vanity. This is the situation we have in our powder room, which I have been using to apply make-up since our bathroom has been demo'd, and I find it creates lots of shadows unless I kind of tilt my head up. We sent with 5 inch instead of 4 because 4 felt kind of spotlight-ish to me, but I get what you are saying about the light being right at the surface.

Sounds like you have this well-thought out! I know what a challenge it is with lighting because new products are coming out all the time. Since you are basing your choices (and positions) from your previous experience, I think you'll be very pleased with your results.

Hi Cynthia Taylor-Luce!

When placing recessed lights above the vanity, where is the best place to locate them/point them to avoid the shadows that people complain about?

I like to pair them, about 12"-14" apart, centred over the sink. That way if you are standing in front of the sink leaning into the mirror, the light will wash down either side of your face, rather than creating shadows under your eyes and nose. When retrofitting light into an existing bathroom you might find that the structure of the ceiling doesn't allow this placement, but it's the ideal arrangement and if you can achieve it I know you'll be happy with it. If space allows, I also install a pair of decorative sconces about shoulder/chin height and put them on a separate switch. It's nice to have atmospheric light for evening, but the possibility to add the recessed lights for more intensity.

Thanks for your question!

Hi Cynthia Taylor-Luce! Thank you for your response! I don't have enough room to do the sconces on the side, so I have been researching how to provide some sort of cross-illumination. I think I can swing what you are suggesting with these: https://www.lotusledlights.com/resources/Spec-Sheet-LL4G-41K.pdf

Yes, if you have the depth in the ceiling to accommodate these, they would work. Angle them towards the mirror so the light will bounce onto the mirror and back at your face. You're very welcome! I think you'll be very pleased with how bright and sparkly everything looks with these lights.

I would position them at the same distance from the back wall (where the mirror is) as the distance between the wall and the centre of your sink.

HI Cynthia Taylor-Luce

Thank you for all this very helpful information. I have a similar situation, but with an 8.5' counter with two sinks and two mirrors. I'll have sconces on the side and in between the two mirrors (3 sconces total, each 42" apart...is that too far?). And are you saying for best lighting, to place a pair of 4" led's, 12"-14" apart, centered over each sink, and placed 1/2 the depth of the countertop away from the wall? (if counter is 22" deep, the cans are placed 11" away from wall).

thank you!

Yes, it may seem like a lot but you'll welcome the shadow-free bright light when you're closely inspecting yourself in the mirror! I recommend that you draw up to scale your countertop length plus the size of the mirrors and the placement of the sconces. The mirrors will need to be centred over the sinks. The sconces should be the same distance from the mirror frames, so it can be challenging to line them up and size the mirrors and sconces with a double sink arrangement. You might want to use mirrors that have built in LED lighting and then supplement with the ceiling recessed lights. It's too hard for me to say more without seeing everything drawn to scale!

Anything to avoid the shadows! here is a drawing.... The mirrors are 24w x 30h centered over the sinks. Sconces are centered over the cabinets underneath and centered in between the mirror frames and walls at each end of the vanity -- very symmetrical. Do you think the 4" recessed LED lights should be a bit further apart than 14" since my sink cabinet and mirror are 24" wide? thanks!

Well thanks for the picture! It looks like everything is perfectly situated. No I would keep the pairs of recessed lights close together because the light should be concentrated on both sides of the face (hence no shadows) when you are standing directly in front of the sink. Definitely put the recessed light on a separate switch. I would put the sconces on a dimmer so they could be a soft night light for late night visits. But when you are seriously working at the sink (makeup shaving plucking etc.) you can blast the working area with light. Also if you have a shower in this bathroom, either a separate shower or one over a bathtub, please also install two lights in this space--they can be 30"-36" apart and should be rated for damp areas.

This is so very helpful.. thanks! The area to the left of the vanity is a 3'x5' walk-in shower.. I was wondering about one recessed light or two there, so you read my mind! One last question... would you put recessed LED lights for general lighting in the areas/walkways adjacent to vanity and shower or would you recommend a semi flush mount fixture(s) so light hits the ceiling and fills the room ? I think I'll do a recessed light over the water closet area.

Here's another drawing to give you an idea of the space. Its a narrow bathroom without much natural light. Thanks for all your help! Lighting is so important in the bathroom!

Also, do you also have any recommendations for the beam spread on the recessed LED's for over the sink/vanity, the shower and for general/pathway lighting? thanks!

Definitely two recessed LED's in the shower. This eliminates shadows and really makes your plumbing and your tiles sparkle!

How do you feel about having your lighting on separate switches so you can control the light level? If so, then I'd have the sconces on the same switch as a light centered over your knees when you're seated on the toilet (for good reading!) and one centered in the space outside the shower enclosure. These would be on a dimmer so for night-time runs to the bathroom you could see your way to the toilet with a gentle layer of lighting. Then I would put the recessed lighting over the sinks on a second switch, and the shower lighting on a third switch. Voila! You will have a very versatile lighting scheme! The fourth switch would be for your ventilation fan.

You definitely need a dimmer on the first group, and none on the shower switch, but you might possibly want one for the four LED's over the sink. So the only "general pathway lighting" you'd get would be the one adjacent to the shower.

However if you are putting some kind of feature on the wall opposite the counter top you might like a directional spotlight or two to highlight it.

This bathroom sounds like it's going to be very luxurious! In that case I would treat the ceiling lighting in a more thoughtful way. The standard LED's that are at the ceiling surface would be fine for your shower, but for more subtlety in the others I would choose LED's that are installed in recessed housings with the bulbs up inside the housing rather than down at the ceiling surface level. This means that you don't see the bulbs unless you are directly underneath them, and it's a more atmospheric look. The LED's at ceiling surface level bounce light everywhere, but the ones in deeper housings create more pools of light.

There are some really gorgeous housings and trim kits available for these. There are also choices of beam spread with them too, which you don't get with the surface-level type LED's.

The ones over your sinks don't need to have extra-narrow beam spreads because the distance between ceiling and sink is not large, and spill-over light will illuminate your counter top, which is not a bad thing. The recessed lights over the toilet area and adjacent to the shower can be standard because you are creating a pool of light on the floor, 8 feet below the ceiling. A wide-spread beam will still be limited by the depth of the housing, so go for something standard. If you are highlighting a feature wall opposite your sinks, consult with your lighting supplier to choose housings and trim kits that will give the effect you're looking for. These (and the distance from the wall) depend on what you are highlighting, whether it's framed art, a wall mural or textured tile, etc.

Thank you for providing so much information and being specific with your needs. A customized bathroom needs to suit your personal requirements and now is the time to really think about what works for you. I recommend thinking about a horizontal grab bar in the shower that looks like a towel bar but is extra strong and extra long. This will give you or others a feeling of security when showering. And you can get something that looks nice and not institutional! You'll see these in good hotels these days. Also consider making the shower base level with the floor so there is no step-up. This kind of feature makes the shower safer for people as they grow older or if they have physical challenges. It also looks beautiful!

Best of luck with your bathroom!

Hi Cynthia,

Thank you for all your help with bathroom lighting. Can you please explain the difference between standard LED's and the one's inside recessed housing that you mention above? Do you have any that you recommend? thank you!!

Sorry it's taken me some time to get back to you. I would look up photos for you but I'm pressed for time. The standard LED's are the ones that are all-in-one units that have a frosted glass disc at ceiling level. The whole unit is about 3/4" thick so they are perfect for areas where you have no depth in the ceiling. The light bounces all over the room with no obstruction and can make the room look "flat". This is probably ok for a standard bathroom.

For a high-end look and more versatility you need the recessed housings that go up inside the ceiling, I'm guessing about 6 or 8" deep? This allows you to have the bulb up inside the housing so the beam spread is more limited (which can be a very good thing). There are all sorts of optional trim kits which can dress up the fixture and make it look very cool and also to direct the light beam in a particular direction or to limit the spread. The bulbs you buy for these can have different beam spreads too. I recommend you consult with a retailer that carries Contrast Lighting, for instance. It's probably going to be a special order because there are so many choices in style and in finish (black/chrome/stainless/etc. etc.).

Hi Cynthia,

thanks for that info. My contractor is installing the recessed kind of fixture throughout the bathroom, so I'm all set there. Now I just need to decide on the bulbs and beam spreads that go in them! thank you!

Cynthia, and Jill (and vrieck) ,,,why are you guys hijacking Craigs post from almost 4 years ago?

Cynthia, it's better if you advise someone to start their own post, OR message you so you can answer them directly. resurrecting a zombie post to answer someone else's dilemma should be avoided.

well that would be my fault... I don't know how to start my own post. I saw that Vrieck had tagged onto Craig's post about the same issue I had with lighting, so I did the same. Sorry!

jillsigler,,,any time you want help with anything, just go to the Advice forum, click what kind of help you need (design dilemma, kitchens, etc) and post your question! you will get notifications any time someone replies.

I'm sorry but I received an email notification from Houzz referring me to the question. I didn't scroll back to check if this was the original poster because I was trying to send a quick reply. I try to answer as many questions as I can. Hopefully the other people on this thread don't mind seeing more details about lighting issues but there's always the option to click to switch off notifications.