Hi there big plans, will council still allow you two keep to driveways? and are you planning Attic bedrooms with Velux skylights so roof shape won't change

I would find a local architect that has experience with projects like yours and use their skills and service to the fullest. This where an architect really shines is with the potentially difficult/awkward jobs. A building designer or draftsman can do the plans to the same standard but you'll need someone to work through everything after the plans and documentation is done. Don't just use the architect for plans only use them for council application and approvals as well as them organise the building works through to completion.

This could potentially be a tricky project being in a conservation area as well as having never done any renovation works and also wanting to enjoy the process.

You'll get some really good advice from Houzz but take it all with you to the chosen architect and polish it all from there, including the architects advice as well.

Once you've been down this route you'll have knowledge of whats required if you decide to do it all again. Good luck on your journey.

@siriuskey

yes as there are already 2 driveways there, we can keep them (would not be allowed if it was a new house)

we haven't considered attic bedrooms yet but will look into now that you mention it. The architect said we would be ok building the upstairs floor behind the current roof so it wouldn't be visible from the street

@MBDesign

we have consulted multiple local architects, all but one said that it wasn't possible to put 3 bedrooms upstairs and they have all said very conflicting things about what is and isn't possible within the council conservation regulations.

we settled on an architect (who drew up the initial draft plan) who has the greatest experience in our area (has done >100 similar properties in the area) and we have been to many (>10) of his homes which we have loved. The only drawback as he is so experienced he is older and only works with pen/paper so no 3D models, limited email availability etc. Anyway, he is certain that all the things he says can be done will be approved by council.

We had a large Federation house with a beautiful roof which took 2 bedrooms and a study across both. Each Bedroo had a QB set under the slope of each side of the main roof, with large 360 opening velux windows, the bedrooms also had cabinets at each end, with doorways next to each other in the center of the roof and the highest point

The study which was the width of both rooms had a long 900 wide study bench on the other low slope also with the same velux window. We were lucky to have a friend and neighour who was an Architect along with a very experienced builder Chris Madewell. It was a great way to access extra rooms at a very good price, the bathroom was at the bottom of the stairs. You are lucky being able to keep both drive ways, when we added our double garage to the front of the house they took back the old single driveway which ran down the other side of the house. The garage was built back to back on the boundry with our neighbours and done so that that looked as if they had always been part of the properties. I agree that an Architect will always give you the best result, the tend to push the boundaries a bit more, which I'am told I do, very exciting time. You have the rumpus room where I would have the living/study/ parents retreat.

Maybe I could have a go at drawing the plan for you to give you a better idea even though my CAD program is very OLD

Simon N, thats the architect you'll need. Sounds perfect for your project.

You can have 3D models done by others if need be but really not needed if you can follow a 2D plan. Its the working through of approvals and organising building works where the architect really shines.

I would suggest that if you have got to this stage that you run your proposal past a council planner and their heritage consultant before you lodge a development application. Getting their input at this early stage can short-cut a lot of frustration and time with your project.

You could also engage an independent town planner to assist with your application which is fairly sensitive due to the heritage aspect. I am consistently surprised what a good independent town planner can negotiate with council planners when they are involved. I have engaged Vivienne Albin of Urbanised Town Planners, and can't recommend her enough to smooth development applications through.

http://www.urbanised.net/

Getting good town planning advice is even more importannt with "old school" pen and paper architects as if there are substantial changes required then you will be charged for the time for redrawing. Whereas an architect using a CAD system will still charge but it is easier and faster to make amendments. I used to be old school myself until I realised that changes made with a computer mouse are much faster than scratching ink off tracing paper with a razor blade (which is how old school architects usually correct mistakes).

Best of luck with your project and get the plannig principles right before you sweat out the details,

Regards

Dr Retro

of Dr Retro House Calls.

@bigreader thanks - I was wondering whether to put a shower in that powder room instead of next to the back office (but wife wanted to keep the shower nearer the garden) but maybe shrinking it to enlarge the suite is a good idea

@siriuskey/MBdesign I am bad at 2D visualisation but the Home design 3D app I used to make the floorplan also converts it into 3D and has made things a lot easier for me to visualise. Its great for looking at natural lighting at different times of the day and with different window configurations. I was skeptical that free/cheap iphone software would be so effective but I checked its accuracy by doing a model of our current home and the 3D simulation is a very good representation of our current home and accurately shows the way the lighting changes throughout the day in different rooms.

I agree we are lucky to have 2 driveways (good for resale the local agents tell me) and are planning to have a curved drive-in drive-out driveway at the front of the house

You can see the roof, it's the first red roof showing skylights and the second red roof was a sub division from the property, the whole corner properties including the one next door to us where replaced with town houses. An absolute crime as they were all beautiful and should have been protected as they were all part of a large two story Homestead which is protected they housed the butcher etc, ours was the Doctors residence

@drretro thanks for the planner recommendation. I was under the impression that we wouldn't need one as the architect has done so many in the area and knows whats allowed but will check on that. The rumours are that the council just approves anything he submits as they know him.

From my experience with heritage planning nothing is rubber stamped if it is done by an architect who is well known to the council, and each proposal should be judged on its own merits and compliance with the local regulations and councils heritage advisor. Council planners aren't allowed to recommend consultants.

Being a first time renovator you certainly have done the right thing selecting to use a locally known Architect.

Is the original house cavity brick and tile.

Is the posted proposal yours or the Architect.

You mention not being able to see any extension additions from the street and it does, The kitchen/pantry mudroom back end of the house doesn't flow considering that you intend to add a pool.
Is the drying area outside the Laundry?.

Attached is a rough drawing of the our old Attic extension, you can see the sky lights in the google photo cheers

my suggestions simplifies the floorplans and makes use of more of the original spaces and adds all the new upstairs room directly above the new extension and allows for extra generous upstairs setbacks to minimise overshadowing and create distance from neighbours and more flexibility for roof design) and, except for the stairwell, has no changes to the existing roof space (unless needed for extra bathroom and storage) there are six bedrooms, 4 bathrooms, several generous living areas, more spacious kitchen and the study overlooking the garden (with internal access by hallway from the dining area and optional direct external access from verandah ) and shares a bathroom for the pool, family rooms and alfresco...the verandahs along north and south are intended to create covered entry areas and more privacy from the two storey neighbours

@siriuskey
- the original house is double brick and tile - I don’t think the walls have cavities (but not sure)
- the posted proposal is based my my modification of the architects first rough draft

- what do you mean about the kitchen/pantry/mudroom not flowing ( i thought it would flow ok because you can go from the pool into the shower via the side exit/mudroom)?
- your attic extension looks cool, I’ll look into the feasibility of an attic room or 2
- the drying area would be outside next to the laundry

@oklouise
wow - thanks for doing that plan! thats very kind of you. It looks awesome
I’m
going to have to take some time to get my head around it - its weird
seeing a different plan after having our current plan set in my mind

-
I don’t think the upstairs bit will work exactly as you drew it because
the master bedroom side of the upstairs would be visible from the
street as it sticks out from the main house
(the downstairs study is
ok to stick out because it is covered by the existing laundry (although
the proposeddraft plan removes that existing laundry to allow light into
the ensuite/bedroom2, apparently it would be ok for the ground floor to
stick out the same extent as the existing laundry, but upstairs cannot
stick out)

- what do you mean by your plan making more use of the original spaces?
-
by saying your upstairs plan allowed for extra setbacks do you mean
that it doesn’t stick out above the al fresco area and so would allow
more light into the downstairs living areas?

- one of the things
my wife wanted was an ensuite in every bedroom (because in-laws may stay
for long periods, the kids are different sexes and might not want to
share bathrooms when older and for resale value - I’m not that keen on
an ensuite in every room, but the architect did say its a common request
in the area and would be good for resale) which isn’t possible to with
your plan

one thing that put me off having the back shower in between the study/alfresco

i like your idea of having a veranda extending from the living area to the front deck

- i think it’ll take me a few days to think about your plan - thanks again!

@pauldistafano
thanks for your excellent comments and sharing your project plan
- you have opened and blown my mind about whats possible
- splitting the house in two so that the south facing living area can effectively become a north facing living area is ingenious!

- do you have any other general tips/tricks to improve lighting in a south facing living area?
- is that one of the projects listed in your houzz profile? I’d love to see which one

I would have asked you to do take on my project if you were in Sydney

- now you have got me feeling confused and having to think again!

Simon, here is a similar project to what Paul has described. These clients approached me as they had engaged a draftsman to design a new family room and kitchen extension to the rear of their single storey period home, and he followed a conventional route (much like yours) that did not work for the light, or the outlook, or the overlooking neighbours. They were disppointed, and uninspired by his conventional solution.

My design solution was to separate new from old with a contemporary building that ran parallel with the side boundary, giving them northern light to this new space, and a glazed link with steps to account for the different ground levels. This property had a west facing boundary to the front, east to the rear, and north to the long side boundary.

This project is a much smaller scale than yours, but demonstrates that there are sometimes alternative solutions that work better than the conventional solution when all aspects of the site are considered in combination with a well written client brief.

Modern Addition to Victorian Home · More Info

Modern Addition to Victorian Home · More Info

Modern Addition to Victorian Home · More Info

Best of luck,

Dr Retro

of Dr Retro House Calls

the roof in my plan projects much less to the sides than the original architects' rough draft and the children's bedrooms don't project above the alfresco but there's plenty of space for the extra ensuites if necessary...the red line show the outline of upstairs

Simon, a few things.

What you might consider “ingenious” is just me doing my job....and this is the thing - if this stuff was that easy and anyone could do it, we professionals wouldn’t be required. The problem is the lines are blurred both within the “professional” category and between amateurs and professionals as to individual capacities to handle this project or that and/or certain components. I’ve endeavoured to articulate on other posts how there is a significant difference between resolving a floor plan isolated to the physical aspects, and then resolving a floor plan with understanding on costs, constraints and maximising opportunities through many levels. It’s seriously like comparing a university level essay to that coming out of primary school - the difference? Years of experience. And that’s the value of professional design and why particularly on projects like this you should be investing propin a professional solution

Tips? Bring in lighting from above/high level glazing & think about what each room looks through/out onto......re the project plan no it’s not on my profile, currently in construction....and also understand that what works in one case won’t necessarily work on the next. Also, for the record, as long as I could have the necessary contextual data I could easily resolve a design solution for anything anywhere - our services are not necessarily confined to our local areas, although the way Houzz categorises us into their particular structure, you wouldn’t know that ;)

If you’re confused then you’re nowhere near having this resolved and as i said, clarity over various aspects is required before you start getting into nitty gritty

my advice, don’t waste your time mucking around trying to do this one yourself- it’s too big and complex - pay someone who knows what they’re doing and understand within our profession there are vastly different levels of architects and designers and it’s very much a case if “horses for courses”

Hi Simon, just thought I would throw some more ideas at you, if you look at the original floor plan showing the positioning of the Major rooms you will notice that they are positioned to received the best daylight.

The new floor plan doesn't make best use of these rooms and in fact they appear to be wasted space that could be used to contribute to a lovely home and preserving the features.

I have included a patio area off the kitchen to enjoy what ever morning light you still might get due to the trees. The pool at the rear, I did consider the patio side for the pool but was concerned about the trees dropping leaves. Our old Federation had a pool at the rear of the house ( it's a bit hard to see due to trees, it eventually had a full cover built over the top like a canopy/tent.

Added an ensuite to two of the bedrooms, this to help with extended parent visits.

Moved the Master suite and made that a Media lounge that would be good for the parents to escape to.

4 bedrooms down stairs, if you still wanted extra space the attic room as I sent to you could be added at much less cost than adding onto the house. I haven't added a stair case for this, but it would easily fit into the passage way being that with high ceilings you need less space, or where ever it worked best with your ceiling space.

kept the mudroom laundry and bath room on the same side as you have it as this is where you suggested entering the house when not using the front door.

Not a Pro but I can still look at houses and think what I would like without spending a fortune, you may just see something you like and include in your discussions with your chosen Architect.

Also consider adding bi fold louver shutters across the Alfresco to help with night time privacy from any potential units to the rear of your property cheers

Forgot to suggest that one of the ensuites could be made into a powder room and that the stair case to be open timber cheers

@oklouise
I’m grateful for your input - its been very helpful to make us see new possibilities
- am I correct in thinking that your upstairs plan is designed to prevent the top floor from extending over the ground floor alfresco area and so allow more light into the downstairs living areas?
- the upstairs kids bedrooms in your plan are smaller than we would like and look like they wouldn’t have room for a bed, cupboard and desk?
- personally I like the use if a single bathroom for the 2 kids upstairs rooms but wife is keen for kids upstairs bedrooms to have en suites or access to different bathrooms (we have 1 boy and 1 girl) which is also better for resale
- the property is very well located within a bluechip suburb so we expect good longterm capital growth iand are not too concerned about overcapitalising as we believe that we will more than recoup anything we spend on the property (within reason) in the long term, so would tend to opt for bigger rather than smaller rooms
- we’re still taking time to process your downstairs suggestions

@siriuskey
thanks for taking the time to think about this.
Its great to see a new perspective - it feels uncomfortable (in a good way)
- i think your plan seems to flow really well
- wife really likes the idea of using the front for the master bedroom and hadn’t considered using the exisiting dining room as a master bedroom
- I’m not so sure about it because we don’t spend much time in the day in the master bedroom so the best light might be wasted in it
- the patio next to the pantry would make good use of light but would be facing onto the side of the neighbours house which is not good. The alfresco area at the back would look out onto the back garden which is good but in theory the lighting might not be so good = however when we have visited the property, the back has always seemed fairly light despite the southerly outlook
- 3 of the trees are jacarandas and I think we are doomed to having lots of leaves dropping into any pool wherever we place it -looking into pool cover options is on my to-do list
- theres lots of things on your plan for us to think about and consider - thanks!

You are most welcome, I have always said that I haven't been put on this earth to "Hug" toilets, so I'am wondering who is going to clean all of these Bathrooms.

Our two kids a boy and a girl had the upstairs "apartment" which they and all their friends loved.

I have added a timber stair case for fun, there's plenty of space but you will need to decide what you want to do in the attic and place the stairs to open up into a tall space. I have also turned one of the ensuites into a powder room.

Your Jacaranda's only drop once a year!, you used to be able to trim them by 25% each year, you would need to check with your council, we were on the lower North Shore,

I think you should consider the patio side of the house and make better use of that, is the front deck something you plan on adding because of aspect, and plant some tall growing hedge ready for the apartments.

Our kids Attic desk/study space over looked our pool in the rear garden.

With respect to using the formal rooms for bedrooms, you will find that once you have your large family/alfresco and the kids have their upstairs space if you still feel you need it, it would make a great office. You spend most of the time there only using only using the front room in the evening for watching movies etc.

I have had another play with my floor plan, I think if your wife sees this you may be in trouble, it's a Master Suite, the free standing bath in the window alcove with white timber shutters for sun and privacy control.....

Iam' adding a couple of photos of our old Federation which wasn't protected, when we sold it the new owners removed all of the Fret work & posts replacing them with simple timber posts. The front rooms which we didn't use very much once we opened up the rear rooms into a family area. The room with the Bay window had a Baby grand sitting there, we sold the piano before we took the photo. Cheers

@drretro thanks for sharing your project - it looks great. I considered an L-shaped or u-shaped extension at the back of our place but I don’t think it would work this setting

@paulstefano I agree that there are levels to professionals and they all have different things to contribute to create a personalised solution. You seem like a great example of this

@siriuskey
i am also put of by too many bathrooms as I’ve heard they need lots of cleaning, are expensive to install and date quickly so expensive to update - but thats what the wife and buyers want I’m told

why a timber staircase particularly - for aesthetics?
i think we can trim our jacarandas as you say. They seem to be shedding stuff all year - i never realised it was only once a year?

we’ll plan to have a row of trees at the back garden fence to screen out potential future apartments

the corridor in which you put the stairs looks too narrow for good stairs to me?

interesting idea of putting the bath in the front alcove - but we never have baths in the daytime so the light would be wasted

your photos look similar (but in better condition) to our place as it is

Jacarandas are messy so hopefully you can trim back enough from any pool.

The bathroom was just something a bit flash for such a planned larger house, and you wife does love a bathroom.

We know that the house is Federation but don't know what style your extension might be, traditional or contemporary/modern which a lot of these extensions are as they not only look good but allow a lot of light into otherwise dark rooms.

I added the stair case purely to see what your response was to the idea of open timber to match your floors, they also let light through don't take up extra wasted space and can visually disappear. I did think with an 1800 passageway it would work with out having to cut out space from a brick wall disturbing any ceiling features which are very important to preserve.

But until you have decided what you will be adding upstairs and how, a decision won't be made until that time, the stairs could even come up from the new family room, perfect with kids. cheers

If you want to visualize what your layout will look like we have great options using 3 d renders , 3 d animations and Virtual reality , for more information go to www.aok.net.au

Hi, I would always suggest consulting a pro. At least that's what my family did six months ago and we never regretted that decision. Don’t waste your time trying to do this one yourself- it’s too big and challenging - pay someone reliable, who knows what they’re doing. We hired pros from Central Element and would always recommend them because of their experience and professionalism. They definitely exceeded our expectations.