k_jossie

Need help with kitchen design

k_jossie
2 months ago

I am redoing our kitchen space to add extra storage and make it more practical with 2 kids. We’ll be spending at least another 15 years in this house so I want something which can stand the use because the space is quite small and there are no plans for extension after this.


Starting from a blank canvas, dimensions for the space are 3500mm x 2700mm (excluding the corridor which is 800mm). Most important thing is a decent size pantry and storage. There are the 3 options for pantry:

1. a corner pantry 1100 x 1100

2. a blind corner pantry 1200 x 700

3. standard cabinet pantry 1000(w) x 800(d) – such as one with narrow shelves and shelves on the door as well, and you can step in.


I don’t prefer option 1 and 2 because I don’t consider them to be practical, and option 1 does not seem suitable for a small kitchen. However, would option 3 look odd in such a small space? With the standard cabinet pantry, I was considering placing the refrigerator beside the pantry but have been advised this would not be practical as this would limit opening of refrigerator door and internal drawers.


Apart from this, I am considering a narrow freestanding workbench (with drawers) 1300(L) x 750(D) and dimensions for appliances are:

- 900 freestanding oven/cooker

- 700 sink

- integrated extractor fan

- 600 double drawer dishwasher

- standard microwave

- 790 Refrigerator


Any opinions would be greatly appreciated as we are just not able to decide on a layout to make sure the kitchen is functional with two kids and maximise storage in such a small space.


Also, any suggestions for large scale kitchen showrooms with complete setup, i.e. including all the appliances on display just so we can get some ideas. Help with kitchen design please


Comments (37)

  • dreamer
    2 months ago

    Can you please clarify, Is this a galley style room with open ends, or is this room with walls on three sides? Are there windows?

    Also regarding the fridge next to the pantry. If your pantry is 500mm to 650mm deep, and your fridge comes out to around 750mm -770mm deep. Then the doors will open completely. As long as your fridge is in front of the cupboards by the width of the side of fridge door. Usually around 100mm.
    I have attached a picture of what I mean. It is in inches, but does show the placement of the fridge, so the doors are in front of the cabinetry.

  • Kate
    2 months ago

    Hi please post a sketch showing windows doors and dimensions. Go wide with drawing into adjoins spaces as I know with my kitchen the designer moved a door 1 m at it unlocked the whole design. It was a small cost for big diff.

  • Related Discussions

    Need help with Kitchen design???

    Q

    Comments (13)
    A big thank you to everyone who replied to my post about my kitchen, where would I be without Houzz!!! After reading everyone's ideas and suggestions I have changed my kitchen around and finally I think I have the design I've been looking for. I have drawn up a sketch but I'm not very good at it so I thought I'd post a photo of the kitchen I've based mine on. The styling will be different but the basic layout will be similar. The differences are that I've moved the cook top to beside the sink with plenty of room either side. The microwave has been put into the walk in pantry (next thing I need to tackle). There will be open shelving mixed with bottom drawers to put beside the fridge (which I moved up the same as the photo). I'm thinking about changing the size of the window allowing for overhead cupboards. I had been working on the kitchen for a while, got it drawn up but really didn't like it (hence the post). Finally I think I have what I think will be a beautiful kitchen, thanks everyone, you helped me like you wouldn't believe. Danette [houzz=]
    ...See More

    need help choosing tile colour to match new kitchen design

    Q

    Comments (24)
    I think it is good to mix up the warm and cool colours. We have warm furniture too so its just the walls that are cool. I even have a beige/stone coloured curtain next to the grey wall and it looks so nice. Because this is an open plan room do you think those type of tiles will be too busy? I always go for plain things but i can see how something like that would look really good! This is one big room with lounge, dining, kitchen and french doors that open to a massive decking. I will post a pic of the whole thing when the final benchtop and tiles go on
    ...See More

    Renovation Newbie Help Needed - Relocated Kitchen Design

    Q

    Comments (15)
    Here is the upstairs. Mainly the fact that it needs north facing aspect opened up to the main part of the house to allow for light, cross ventilation and heat in winter. Basically need the same rooms (including a study/guest bedroom) but in a better working layout. Love the fire place and want to keep that. Dislike you can hear everything from upstairs hence why we are moving bathroom to the side bit.
    ...See More

    Kitchen design help needed

    Q

    Comments (30)
    Hi Erin-hem, It maybe too late for changes if you have seen your kitchen designer but I would like to through you a couple of ideas for consideration. In my opinion, the sink area is always the messiest area of the kitchen. Why don't you put that on your new extended outside wall and even include a window for extra light if possible. Put the dishwasher on the left end of that pop out too so it doesn't create an unusable corner on the right side. Then build a 1200mm long wall, 600mm deep into the dining space so you can have a return unit from beside the dishwasher that connects with the island bench. This changes it from a true island bench but gives you the untidy part of the kitchen hidden but not closed off. The wall doesn't need to be full height but needs to be higher than the bench. It can be a joinery item rather than a builders item to match the joinery finishes. Behind the 1200 long wall/screen can be all your tea, coffee etc and your appliances on the bench so usable all the time but not seen from the dining and living area. It also hides the sink from view from the living area. Below bench level in this 1200 section you could actually have drawers for cutlery and crockery that go two way so you can load them from the dishwasher and take them out from the dining room side to lay the table. No need for a pantry with such a long back bench which could have loads of drawers as suggested by someone else. Keep the fridge nearest the stairs so everyone can access it and not come right into the kitchen. If you are a real foodie and love cooking for friends and family, put the hobb on the now free island side. If not, leave it where it is and the 'island bench' is now just a layout and work area and sit at bench. If you have the space, make the gap between the stairs and the bench ample. Say 1300mm wide at least. Cheers, Christine.
    ...See More
  • k_jossie
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Hello Kate and Dreamer, thanks for your response. I have attached the floor plan and elevation. The kitchen layout on the plan was only included for DA purpose so it can be disregarded.


    The only window in the kitchen is marked W0-01, which will be approximately 1 meter from the wall between the bathroom and kitchen. The height of the window is 1000mm from ground and will be below eye level (will be between floor and overhead cabinets and has been included for extra light). The idea is to have the sink located around this area.


    Though the space for kitchen is 4,640, however we want to limit the kitchen to 3500 so that we can place the dining table beside the kitchen. Please feel free to let me know if this does not make sense.


    I have also attached layout that I have done, but have been told it is not practical. Also attached is a photo of pantry I have in mind.


    Please don't hesitate to make any critical comments you feel is necessary. Perhaps, I need to rethink my idea about pantry or sacrifice something else?





  • differentways
    2 months ago

    differentways/siriuskey

    If I have your dimensions correct the kitchen would be over take by a table and chairs, even a Banquette setting would't work. All walls are 100, cabinets are 600 deep and island 900 deep. A better plan showing more of the house would be helpful


    k_jossie thanked differentways
  • dreamer
    2 months ago

    K Jossie, your floor plan shows and dining and lounge area. Will this be correct. Keeping the kitchen to 3500mm and then leaving space for a dining table, only leaves 4140mm for dining and the lounge area. This would be tight for practical space. It you left out the island and put the dining table in the middle of area, that would work. Extend your overhead cabinets and bench the full 4640mm.
    You could purchase a long skinny dining table that could also work as a preparation area.
    Regarding the pantry you have shown. This is an excellent use of space.

    k_jossie thanked dreamer
  • dreamer
    2 months ago

    Another alternative is to have your kitchen as you have designed, with the dining suite in the dining/lounge area, with a couple of single lounge chairs. But this may not be practical for YOUR use of the space.

    k_jossie thanked dreamer
  • differentways
    2 months ago

    differentways/siriuskey

    Sorry K Jossie I now have your posted plan on my laptop so I can actually read it. Yes you can replace the island with a table but you will also lose precious storage which was important and in your brief I have to agree with that.

    . I will add the extra living space. Can I say how important it is that when posting plans that they are easy to see and be able to read all dimensions and not having to guess stuff that will take up extra time. cheers

    k_jossie thanked differentways
  • differentways
    2 months ago

    differentways/siriuskey

    Can you show where the existing sink and cooktop are positioned, do they back the bathroom/laundry?

    k_jossie thanked differentways
  • k_jossie
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    @differentways Great point about the table and chairs taking over, that has been a major concern! The kitchen will be part of a new extension, so all electrical and plumbing work will be new. So the idea is to place the dining table in the indented corner marked in green by Dreamer. So it would be parallel to the door if that makes easier. This space will be 1600 from where the kitchen ends to indentation. We have a narrow table - 800mm and benches. I think I really need to set it out to make sure it is practical.


    The workbench will be only 700 and is purely for prep purposes. This will be freestanding and maybe on wheels so I can move it against the wall and use it for other purposes if needed.


    @dreamer I agree with your idea about replacing the island with dining table, and extending the kitchen bench (I would really like a longer kitchen). This was our original thought. However, as my kids are growing I find my dining table is constantly covered in all things related to kids! Quite frustrating at times and every evening before dinner we have to clear the table. I am guessing it is just going to get worse once they start school and want to do their homework the the able.


    So hence we ended up with the idea. But like differentways pointed out I am concerned about the place getting crammed.


    And the lounge space is an additional lounge area. We do have a another living area in the old part of the house. I will post a complete proposed plan to give better idea I guess.


  • differentways
    2 months ago

    How long is the table so I can place it correctly for you

  • PRO
    Moss Furniture
    2 months ago

    We can custom create a work bench with storage that can be on lockable castors for easy maneuverability. This can double as an island bench or food prep area. have a look at our link and if your interested we can quote you on the dimensions that best suit the space. These can be made using Ceasarstone, Marble or Dekton Surfaces as well as the Stainless Steel surface shown below. Tech Kitchen Bar Tables Kitchen Helper



  • differentways
    2 months ago

    Working with your table 800 x 1500 and island 1300 x 800 total length 2800. You could have the new kitchen built with an attached table extension at table or island height. with chairs or individual stools. This setup will keep the table fixed in place not being able to be pushed around in the small space

    The island could have 200 deep open shelves or doors at the front to store kids stuff away when not needed

    The rest of the cabinets and 600 pantry would be made up of draws if in your budget, this allows for max storage.

    MW either to the left of cooktop on the wall or in the island

    The Pantries:: 1 Blind corner 1200 x 600 and 1 600 x 600 pantry with drawers. The corner pantry is great and is usually set out from the end wall by 200 so you don't have to reach so far back and allows for a 600 door. the "L" shaped shelves are easy to access and great for appliances etc you can also add your hanging shelves to the back of this door ( I had one of these pantries and loved it)

    I have kept the fridge on the same wall as the pantries thus keeping all tall units together giving easy access from the kitchen and for family and is visually pleasing

    I would suggest that because of the size of the whole room you use a 900 cooktop and separate 900 oven which will build in and keep the space from looking cluttered you can have whatever combination that suits you ie: gas and elec

    Years ago I worked with a Danish kitchen company that were the first to setup beautiful showrooms, you can still see others Gaggenau etc. don't over look Bunnings and Ikea for value I currently have Bunnings with all the fittings now available. I can work on a 3D view for you what style are you after. cheers


  • k_jossie
    Original Author
    2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    Thanks for the plan differentways, this could be a possibility and looks spacey and gives me a bigger pantry. The table is 1800, I will try it in my existing kitchen to see if it would work, perhaps reducing the size of work bench? I can make this same height as the existing table. We had the table custom built so I am bit reluctant to let it go.


    By "L" shaped shelves, do you mean something like the attached photo? I like the idea of storing appliances in the pantry. Is it possible to have the MW in the pantry as well? About hanging shelves on the door, would I need a solid timber or plywood door to ensure stability? Or just the standard MDF door would be okay?


    And what do you mean by style? Color and material? If so than dark blue floor cabinets, bamboo benchtop (will match the table) and white top. Prefer touch close/open, I have been told this is not reliable - your thoughts?


    Thanks for showroom suggestion. And have you come across trademaster products? Apparently, there is a big showroom in Granville.


  • differentways
    2 months ago

    The corner pantry usually has individual L shaped shelves, ie all one level that can be adjusted by yourself to suit. They can also come with plinth height floors that can be stepped on to reach high up. Because they are stepped 200 in from the end wall it means you have a shorter reach to the back of the cupboard.

    No, I wouldn't suggest putting your MW in the Pantries you need easy quick access so as per either suggestion.Some might say ventilation is needed and it is which could be done but don't recommend doing the MW in pantry cupboard having to first open the door and then again opening the MW door doesn't work


    I will add the extra 300 to the table for you. Thought for table, you can put industrial style locking wheels on the legs of the table for two reasons, to bring the table up to 900 bench height ( don't drop the height of the island) this will also stop the kids from pushing the table out of situ. Bunnings has these.

    Don't know the company in Granville you mentioned but if you take my suggested floorplan to several different places they can show you what they can do which is a good idea. Does your choice of bamboo match the table, might be better to try something else, Laminated timber benchtops come in different woods. But I think you are pushing it to have the table and island joined to look as one with two different wooden tops.

    Love the blue idea, perhaps blue island, base cabinets and pantries with white benchtops and wall cabinets You will need to ask the manufacturer what can and can't be loaded on their doors ( will update floorplan tomorrow cheers

    siriuskey

  • Kate
    2 months ago

    We have microwave in pantry but you need to leave pantry door open when using which doesn’t work well in Small kitchens if you use it for cooking rather than quick reheating. You need decent prep space at beach height
    I have a corner pantry at entry to my kitchen. It’s 900 in length and tapers to 460 deep. It’s checkers at moment as just shopped and have family of 5 in melb COVID restrictions

    k_jossie thanked Kate
  • dreamer
    2 months ago

    You could have a cabinet with freestanding or integrated microwave. Cabinet can have storage above and below microwave. Similar to attached photo.

    k_jossie thanked dreamer
  • k_jossie
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    @Kate That is impressive, is that the only food storage you use? I have been wondering if I don't actually need a big pantry. Just that I am concerned that I may end up with food all around the kitchen.


    @dreamer Didn't really think about integrated microwave, thanks. I will definitely leave it out of the pantry for reasons mentioned by Kate and Siriuskey, so will just have to have a separate cabinet.

  • k_jossie
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    @differentways thank you so much for your assistance with the plan, I am really looking forward to it. My Husband and I did a bit of rearranging with our table, with a few other items, in our current kitchen and we think your plan will work. It would also create an open flow, which previously would have been blocked by the dining table.


    So the workbench can be standard height and I will add wheels to the table if I think it is necessary. Since I will have the table in the centre as well, I think I can manage with 1000 workbench. For microwave, I will have a cabinet, somewhere above the stove?


    You will also notice there is a window where the indentation is. The bottom part will be fixed, however top will be louvre window. I was thinking I can either have open shelves in that corner or a taper like Kate's pantry?


    Spot on for color scheme! The only difference is the benchtop. I don't want to color match the table and benchtop but thought it would be better to keep it similar. And if there are open shelves I have use the bamboo as well. I do want the white porcelain sink though, like the one in your ideas.


    The only thing I can not get a perspective of is a blind corner cabinet, I have never seen it in a kitchen before. I hope I will get to see one at a showroom.


    Thanks again for the help!

  • Kate
    2 months ago

    Yes it’s my only pantry. Messy as my 10yo puts shopping away

  • differentways
    2 months ago

    siriuskey

    Just a thought, keep bench height at normal 900 unless you are both tall it could turn off eventual buyers.

    The table can be lower than the island

    Another consideration new flooring to be laid on total floor space before installing any cabinets The weight of the Island won't move and therefore doesn't need fixing to the floor but do remember to run power to the island before installing any new flooring

    . If you have a concrete slab you may need to chisel a channel like we did. You will want power points for any appliances and if the MW is installed in the island.

    Not attaching the island to the floor gives easy options for any possible future changes.

    The blind corner plus 600 pantry will be excellent, the blind corner for appliances , large kitchen items and any bulk food stuffs.

    Like you we are in NSW and buy bulk items, 5kg rice, flour, Oil etc so these will fit the blind corner pantry storage, all other food stuff in draws within the 600 pantry. You can even hang a broom on the back of the door for quick clean ups.

    Google to see what good showrooms are in Sydney, Gaganeau is excellent European leading edge design and used to have a large showroom out near the airport, Omega Smeg where also out there. Granville used to house my old company's head office and warehouse do try looking at large Bunnings Stores for examples of cabinets fittings etc you won't be disappointed

    The following example of a blind corner pantry not suggesting these profiles or colours but you can see how both pantries will look, imagine it without the badly installed ovens just visualize both pantries plus fridge, nice and simple, you could even make the fridge intergrated by adding a door panel to it

    Also Bunnings showing an example of an under bench MW this can also be built in cheers



  • differentways
    2 months ago

    Kate I just saw that you are in lock down in Victoria I feel very sorry for you and your family and the people of Victoria especially those in the country

  • PRO
    HedgeWytch Garden Design
    2 months ago

    For space efficiency nothing beats the pull-out pantry and I'm surprised it wasn't one of your options. The pantry can be narrow and yet the full depth of the benches and is accessed from both sides of the pull out insert. Far more practical than either a corner pantry or a shallow walk-in pantry.




    k_jossie thanked HedgeWytch Garden Design
  • HU-925555113
    2 months ago

    Have been reading and just wanted to add, I have an under bench microwave. I love it. Much nicer than up high I think. I had never seen one before but I decided to do it in my kitchen and have been very happy.

    k_jossie thanked HU-925555113
  • k_jossie
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    @differentways The 3d view is fabulous Siriu, thank you! You have helped a lot and I feel comfortable with this design now, and to others as well. It has been great to get different views. Thanks heaps.

    Once the kitchen is ready I can always move the table between the 2 spaces to see what is more suitable. But definitely extending the work bench.

    I have council approval and going through process to select a builder. This is our very first time doing such project and so a lot to find out and consider. I wish I had posted my design before filing DA application though. When I have some time I will post bathroom designs for feedback.

  • differentways
    2 months ago

    I agree that a pull out pantry is a great cabinet choice for some situations but they don't solve a corner situation. MW ovens can be lethal installed incorrectly for both adults and kids

    k_jossie thanked differentways
  • differentways
    2 months ago

    Sorry, re extending the work bench you won't be able to fit your 1800 table comfortably onto it. I did't post that for you

  • k_jossie
    Original Author
    2 months ago

    Sorry, wrong terminology I guess, by work bench I actually meant the cabinets and bench top, so extending it like in your drawing.


    I will reduce the size of freestanding work bench if necessary to accommodate the table.

  • dreamer
    2 months ago

    K jossie, with the new design of smaller workbench and your dining table, you still will have the challenge of clearing dining table before meals. With children this is a given, but have you thought about providing a narrow desk for the children to do their arts and crafts and drawings? It doesn't have to take up much space. When the children are at school, they can use the dining table for workbooks, laptops etc, which are easier to clear. But when they are little people, it's nice to have a spot where the art supplies can be accessible all the time. Just food for thought. All the best.

    k_jossie thanked dreamer
  • dreamer
    2 months ago

    Also this picture may help you see your potential kitchen set up.

    k_jossie thanked dreamer
  • Lorraine Cobcroft
    2 months ago

    K_jossie, there's some really helpful suggestions here. I can't add much in terms of design ideas, but in a small kitchen that serves a family it's vital to maximise storage, Have a look at some of the more novel ideas for extra storage. You can put drawers in kickboards for things like baking trays, serving trays, shallow casserole dishes, serving platters you don't use often, etc. Loads of space there that usually goes to waste!


    Another idea I saw that I thought brilliant was making walls into shallow storage. Where you have a blank wall that it isn't practical to place cabinets against, and you don't plan to put furniture against (such as along corridors or walkways), the lining can be removed between the studs and shelving inserted and sliding or hinged doors fitted. It provides shallow storage that is brilliant for things like canned and packet food, cups, glasses, and some of the utensils that we typically like to hang in the kitchen. I also saw this method used above a child's desk area, using the in-wall space for storage of art and craft supplies.


    I agree a slideout pantry is a fantastic idea. I had one in our last house and loved it. It provided loads of storage in a very small space. The other way to maximise storage is to use drawers extensively instead of cupboards. When designing my kitchen, I made a list of things I needed to store and designated their future home on my plan, working out both where they were most accessible when needed and also the optimum way to structure storage space to hold everything. It's amazing how much difference just varying drawer depths according to the height of items to be stored in them can make.


    Best of luck with your extension. I hope the result is pleasing.

    k_jossie thanked Lorraine Cobcroft
  • k_jossie
    Original Author
    last month
    last modified: last month

    @dreamer Brilliant idea re a narrow desk for children, I haven't actually thought about this and will see if I can find something to fit in my current space. And thanks for sharing the picture, I managed to get to Ikea and Bunnings this weekend to get some ideas as well.

    @Lorraine Cobcroft Thank you for the suggestions. I will definitely be making a list of my needs as you have mentioned, and all the other helpful suggestions that I have received. I am really happy with the new layout, I think it would make the kitchen more functional. I wish I had found this forum sooner, but not too late!! I have thought about kickboard storage but interestingly people I have spoken to didn't mention it. But I guess no harm in bringing this up with suppliers and leaving it out if it is costly.

  • Lorraine Cobcroft
    last month

    It's a great forum, k_jossie. Dreamer, Kate, Sirius key and a few others helped me transform a very badly designed kitchen, pantry, store room and weird little angled hallway into a brilliant spacious kitchen with a pantry and scullery and a much better laundry layout. It's still on paper at this stage, but it will be a fabulously functional area and a pleasure to work in once it's done. Good luck with your renovation.

  • k_jossie
    Original Author
    last month

    Update - have been to a number kitchen showrooms now, including Blum showroom. It is amazing, get the option to test drive kitchen layout. I tested the layout suggested by Siriuskey with table beside the island, and it works perfectly. I was surprised by how much room I had, and it didn't seem overcrowded.


    The consulted suggested a few good storage solutions. I may not use all their products because of the price but some really good ideas if anyone is interested in visiting Blum showroom.

  • oklouise
    last month

    well done siriuskey and differentways

  • differentways
    last month

    differentways/siriuskey

    Blum is tops you can purchase their fittings along with others from an online company

    Elraco (Errol) they were great to deal with and are in SA. Please keep in mind the size of your sofa I'am happy to try it with your measurements

  • Lorraine Cobcroft
    24 days ago

    There is a dazzling array, now, of inexpensive 'gadgets' to expand storage space - slideouts, pullouts, drawers-in-drawers, flip-down shelves, corner drawers, corner pullouts, lazy susans... the list is endless. Today, I saw a video of a small kitchen that had an island bench with two counter tops - one under the other. The top one pulled out to double the counter space and create an eating bench, then pushed back over the top when the eating was done. On the side of the island, another section of bench slid out to double the work area and expose the cooktop that was hidden underneath. And instead of a splash back behind the cooking area, two sliding doors exposed a shallow cupboard holding appliances that slid forward for use and back behind the doors for storage.


    I have just rearranged my kitchen to make a narrow space beside the fridge for a pullout to store brooms, mop and cleaning items. And in the pantry, I am re-purposing two wire-coated sloping shoe-storage shelves that were in our WIR but are surplus to our needs. They will hold canned food and automatically rotate the oldest to the front to be used first.


    Check out some of the videos on YouTube and look on Pinterest for bright ideas for using simple, inexpensive things (like large paper clips, for example) to make the most of every inch of storage space. You'll see some brilliant ideas, often using every-day items that cost next to nothing.