Wow that's messy

A few links below may give you some answers - you need to do the homework but may be cleaner just to help get it sorted and possibly get remunerated for the work involved getting it sorted.....

A reasonable overview / analysis of the current Sydney market

https://propertyupdate.com.au/property-investment-sydney/

CGT impact will depend upon whether you have the house as primary residence or an investment, any profit will be liable if it's an investment

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Capital-gains-tax/Property-and-capital-gains-tax/CGT-when-selling-your-rental-property/

Stamp duty will be more as a foreign buyer

https://stampduty.calculatorsaustralia.com.au/stamp-duty-nsw

My rule of thumb is no friends and no family when dealing with property/business ;)

good luck

PD

Thanks heaps Paul , and yes I certainly agree about family and friends , but my cousin is single with no children , and was the only direct family member living in Aus , so with 2 married sisters and a quite unwell mother ( my aunty ) here in NZ , no -one was prepared to travel over and sort things ( or maybe they are just cleverer than me haha ) .

As far as I can gather , as she has owned the property for approx 20 years , there is no CGT for her to pay . In round figures , I understand she paid around $600k , and it appears it may be worth $2.5-3mil ? Her sister who went over and accompanied her back says it is a renovation mess , and may need $250k or more spent , but the owner cousin seems to be saying it 'only' needs flooring and the bathroom finished .

My cousin ( the owner ) has it freehold and has cash reserves , but I'm not sure how easy it is to access those funds , so my plan of attack next week is to report back to primarily my aunty , get quotes and take things from there . Small amounts I can pay but if it needs $50k or more I'd sooner not commit , at least yet .

My aunty seems to be pushing for a quick easy sale , and seemed to hint they would take less than $2 mil as is ( she might be 90 but she's definitely got her faculties haha ) , but as far as me , or me and my girlfriend , buying it -- that is a whole other can of worms on several levels and I'd better not start on that -- except to say that if we were going to go down that path , it appears there would be taxation advantages in keeping title in my cousins name for as long as possible , but that could get messy too .

Thanks again , and we'll concentrate on getting the interior done as step one .

There’s no CGT on a principal place of residence in Australia so her length of ownership and original price doesn’t matter. There is a significant difficulty in Australia in getting trades so you’ll need to balance that difficulty against the increase in price after repairs.

Thanks . We have similar tradie problems here , I guess I'm a bit lucky in that I use some fairly regularly so I have a track record and also know the good ones , but also my cunning mind is just thinking -- I suspect if we do a 'shopping list' this trip , contact some tradies here in NZ , it mightn't take too much arm twisting to get 2 or 3 to head over for a week or similar -- mind you we might have to take our own beer -- not much interest if they have to drink your stuff haha -- don't want to punish them !

Paul's articles seem to imply the market is on the up ( similar to here ) so whilst I understand my aunties push to get the place sold , her daughter doesn't need the money in a hurry , so between all of us we'll weigh up options .

The CGT thing is more if Rosie and I buy the place and either keep it as a base ( unlikely -- it sounds like it would be way too expensive to own to only be used a few weeks a year -- plus there's other dynamics that I won't go into ) or sell in 6-12 months time , plus if we do the second option there is the possibility of 'copping' 2 stamp duties too ( plus imagine if we were lucky enough to make $100k or $400k profit -- suddenly you're not the helpful cousin who's taken the risk and offered a quick payout -- you're the baddie profitting off a sick cousin ! ) .

Its looking like its either sell as is quite quickly ( poss including furniture ) or keep for 12 months or so and get up to a quality standard throughout .

Pretty much my thoughts too thanks Paul , and my understanding is that my cousin has other money and investments , like I also said though is that my aunty sort of just wants rid of the place as no-one else on that side of the family lives in Aus . Similarly , I don't want to be a fulltime project manager -- I sort of have a job or two here in NZ haha , I'm doing a develop and lease for a car dealership here ( although the building itself is now finished -- 1 month ahead of schedule but $900k over budget ! ) , as well as a girlfriend and her son , etc .

Being family , even if my cousin passes , I think any schedule can be worked around without huge pressure to sell quickly , and I assume even the pushiest lawyer wanting to settle a will would be able to understand the reasoning .

Even just in the last week since being asked , I've learnt quite a bit , my girlfriend is getting keen to have an Aus getaway , it'll be a bit of work but we'll have fun no doubt , and maybe a bit of stress haha .

Well , we are on the bus on Wednesday , and I'm wondering if we should be worried about the Biosecurity checks ? I've opened that many cans of worms that I may have to say I own a worm farm haha .

I won't go into the personal/family stuff , but even things like finance gets a bit messy .

We have made some tentative enquiries about house finance ( mortgage ) in case we go down that track . Different financiers have different rules , but basically as we live in New Zealand , have businesses and properties and pay taxes here , with no Australian income or property , and this property , IF we purchase it , would not be our primary residence , the deposit requirements and other requirements would make it difficult to secure finance from any Australian institution . Fair enough .

Because of slightly different laws and Asset to Value Ratios and the like , and as discussed this wouldn't be a primary residence , essentially to get finance from a New Zealand provider the finance needs to be secured over New Zealand based assets , so we need to show at least that value in 'unencumbered assets' .

Here's where it gets even stranger -- I qualify , but my girlfriend doesn't . No problem , if it come off , I'll sign , I said . That isn't the strange part -- my financier said 'make sure you sign anything just in your name' . What ? Because on a legal level , if both names are on the title , but one person has all the finance , it gets legally difficult . I possibly haven't expressed that all that well , but hopefully you get the idea -- I can make whatever arrrangement I want with my girlfriend , but we can't get both names on the title ! Takes a lot of the shine off things .

Anyway , onto positive things -- no matter what happens , unfortunately it looks like the place won't be sold by Bathurst week . A bit tragic eh , especially as we may have to head over and do a bit of work in the days just before then haha -- I wonder if my cousin will click ?

Today is rest day -- off to breakfast soon .

In essence , this trip has turned out to be more 'research' than achieving too much .

We sort of came into this with very little information , turned up on Wednesday , the place isn't a mess but theres a reasonaable amount of work to do .

Power is still on , but the water was turned off . The kitchen units and benches are installed , the floor is rough sort of plastery concrete , there are 2 sinks installed , but the water and drains and dishwasher aren't installed . The main bathroom is a mess and is basically back to bare walls , a couple of pipes and the toilet 'hole' , but the shower , toilet , units , tiles , floor , the lot has been stripped .

So we door-knocked . The couple who own the 'top' unit are really nice and helpful , and knew where the master taps were . They ( the couple ) are around 80 I'm guessing , Aussie born , he owned a plastics business ( plastic bags and stuff apparently -- I forget the technical name ) but sold to a competitor and retired . Anyway , nice helpful people .

Problem -- the kitchen had a small leak , basically a fast drip , but the bathroom where everything had been 'capped' on the pipes obviously wasn't done correctly , and with the water main on , filled a 10 litre bucket in less than 10 minutes . So day 1 -- no water , no showers , no cooking . Camping in a $2.5 million place haha .

Thursday we went to a hardware store ( Uber ) , got plastic pipe and T Clamps and basic cheap metal taps . I tried to soften the pipe with hairdryers -- no good . This time we went to Bunnings and got a heat gun thing , lots of tape and screws and stuff . By around 7pm Thursday got taps and clamps and the plastic pipes all fitted , turned master water on , didn't leak plus instead of being blanked off , we can get water into buckets and basins . No hot water yet .

Woohoo -- Friday the hot water was hot , we had showers ( in the ensuite ) and washed dishes in the laundry tub . We've taken lots of pictures , found invoices and phone numbers for tradies . But theres lots of decisions to be made and even things like theres apparently a splashback ordered ( and possibly paid ? ) but we can't find that , we're trying to get plumbers to come and give us quotes , theres boxes of the timber flooring but it needs laying , the ovens need installing , even things like the overhead cupboards are installed up tight to the ceiling , but in one spot the roof plaster obviously isn't quite flat , and theres a gap at least 1mm slightly left of the middle -- do we run a 'cap' in front ? Do we get it plastered ? Do we try and get the installers back , drop the cupboards and sand to fit the ceiling better ?

The bathroom is another whole story , then the carpet is 20 years old , its a 'ropey' looking beige ( is it called sissell ? ) and it does show wear and discoloured on the heaviest use areas and almost threadbare on the edges of steps etc .

Curtains are dated , and on it goes . Most of the furniture is stylish and upmarket and in good condition -- a bonus IMO .

My cousin has lots of art , so we've packed quite a bit of that in crates . Similarly , vases and plates that look like they are of value and/or sentimental we'll package and take some back in our luggage . Then there's a surprise -- about 180 bottles of wine , apparently some are quite valuable ! Rosie has made a suggestion haha -- bet you can't guess .

Anyway , I'm rambling , so better go . In summary , it has been good to get here , possibly hasn't achieved heaps , but its a first step . Will we buy it ? We're interested , I think Rose is keener than me , it is an adventure but is it one we really want ? I suspect it will be worthwhile , but I'm not busting a gut to buy it .

Hi Pottsy, I'm born and bred in Sydney and Cremorne is big bucks due to its proximity to the harbour and city. Would definitely be finishing the Reno started if possible, and have it styled to sell if looking for the top money. I dont think people want door uppers as much. You wont be getting young couples who are prepared to do work themselves buying there. Sydney's property market is very segmented but the high end is always pretty robust. Suggest looking into Clarke and Humel real estate, they are a boutique agency which get amazing results and I think one of them is the top sales person in Sydney.  Good luck...

$2mil seems way under what it would be worth......be careful family are not undervaluing the property as they dont live in Sydney.

$2mil seems way under what it would be worth......be careful family are not undervaluing the property as they dont live in Sydney.

Thanks , it gets a bit involved , and it isn't on the market yet , but $2m as it is seems to leave a bit of margin , but at $2.5 as it is , it seems that no-one would likely be interested , neither genuine buyers nor speculators . We almost booked a B N B the other night -- we are sort of roughing it for a week ( literally no water or showers first 2 days and nights ) , but it needs at least $50k and a few weeks and 3 or 4 different tradies to get to a livable standard ( water , waste , stove , dishwasher , bathroom working but floors walls ceilings as they are ) , $250-300k to get to a top saleable standard , and it seems $3m would be too high a selling price even then . I was just reading on-line earlier today though that Sydney prices were up 2pointsomething% last month , but who really knows -- does that mean 24% over the next 12 months ? Probably not , but who knows , it may be $3.5 this time next year , but not now .

I did think of getting 2 or 3 real estate people to have a look , but without being too negative -- why ? They may lowball it , or say take to auction but then we find it chokes -- I think we are better to make a plan first . Thanks for the recommendation too @afjp .

My suggestion has been to get it finished and then sell , but my aunty in particular is pushing for a quicker sale just to make things 'cleaner' , and she has made the comment more than once that if anyone makes any money on it , she's sooner it was me rather than some 'random' . Of course , taking it to auction would in theory set a market price , but is that realistic if it needs work ?

It looks like we have a plumber coming tomorrow to at least do a quote but hopefully get taps in the kitchen and the sinks waste connected , and the people 'up the top' have already been given a set of keys and are happy to let tradies in etc , but maybe I'm a control freak -- I'd sooner be there and check and pay .

Anyway , we are heading home Wednesday , we have way more of an idea what needs doing , and as Arnie says "We'll be back" haha -- probably Bathurst week or maybe even before then .

Just an update . There has been so much information to find and process , lots of people to liase with , conflicting information , and even inter-family dynamics .

As New Zealanders , my girlfriend and I would struggle to buy an investment property in Australia -- there are ways to do it , but it is difficult and expensive . The stamp duty on this Cremorne place would be around $150k IF we got approval for example .

As per previously commented, it's messy (on so many levels), and stamp duty stacked against foreign buyers, also you're dealing with a specific area of the market with economic uncertainty/low consumer confidence but then some % of the boomers are doing OK which may work in favour for ROI if you finish it off properly to a good finish level

Fixer uppers at auction will only attract bottom feeders.....

....rather than try and wrangle trades from abroad I'd suggest there'd be an easier path (on the basis that you're putting it to market and not buying yourself) through a real estate agent who with connections with trades/team who are specialised/streamlined for the process of upgrading property amenity & presentation (work that doesn't require permits etc) eg bathrooms/cosmetics/finishes for the purpose of selling the vision and maximising return....there a trades I know an all they (need to) do is work for the agencies doing this type of thing and/or rentals remedial/repairs.....the agent may take a bigger cut but it may be worth it to save the headaches and potential family feuds

Thanks Paul -- yes , I'm certainly regretting even sticking my hand up to help .

One of my cousins sisters has decided to stick her oar in too -- she doesn't want to head over , or organise anything , buit someone her husband knows said that the approx 20 year old carpet could be stretched to fit against the new kitchen timber flooring , for example . Now the kitchen flooring isn't even down , this other cousin hasn't been to the place in the last 4 or 5 years says that 'we' should / could save $25k by not recarpetting . Oh yeah , and could I itemise what I've spent , just so 'they' know I haven't added the odd $20 here or there .

So in an approx $2.5 million place , lets see if we can stretch the old carpet to save a few dollars . i can only assume she is hoping she's in the will , and wants every last $$$ without spending anything .

Fortunately , my aunty and my cousin are both a bit more relaxed about things , and are actually grateful I ( and my girlfriend ) are getting things done , and without divulging too much , all post-sale money will be coming back to New Zealand and seperated out of the eyesight of your authorities -- anyone would be silly to do anything different .

Believe it or not though Paul , at this stage we have some Sydney tradies we are talking with , and we are getting a plan of attack .

We're heading back in 3 or 4 weeks time , just waiting to get as many ducks in a row as we can .

OMG how's that view!!! That's iconic

surely it should be worth more than 2.5 if it's fitted out properly and well finish ??!

Just a quick update . As you know by now , about a month ago we came over and sussed the place out , and got the water in the kitchen sorted . We took lots of photos . We also took the opportunity to register an Aussie company , get ABN and tax numbers etc -- nothing directly to do with this property .

Since then , as well as working , we've made numerous phone calls and emails to potential tradies and the like , sent photos -- its not easy being on the other side of the ditch because even with photos , most people want to actually see what is required , and have a quick chat . We planned to get back over about now .

Last week my girlfriend did come over to Aus . I stayed here in NZ ( and babysat Rose's son ) . Lets for a second ignore that the legal owner is my cousin , and in fact my girlfriend has only ever met her twice -- I reckon thats a pretty cool thing to do . But it gets even better/stranger -- Rosie went over with her Mum , and also my business partners wife , neither of them have even met my cousin . They met tradies , a wine merchant collected all the wine and the fridge and my cousin has been partially paid for that , and there's an arrangement for the rest .

'The Girls' are now all up to speed with what needs doing , they also went shopping some days and out to dinner or lunch or drinks -- sort of a working holiday -- my girlfriend and a couple of ladies in their 50's/60s , empty nesters with spare time and understanding husbands ! I reckon whoever thought of that ( a big hint -- it wasn't me ! ) is very clever and a bit cunning .

Rosie and Sonya came back to NZ last Friday , but Rosies mum has stayed on and is letting in the plasterer ( who is doing walls and ceiling in the kitchen ) and people doing quotes . She's coming back to NZ this weekend .

So thanks to a bit of lateral thinking and skullduggery , things are starting to move along .

Thanks mainly to my girlfriends Mum , who has been in Sydney the last 4 weeks , things are ticking along slowly but surely .

A little bit to do on the ceiling , but the kitchen and everything in it now works fine !

A new wall unit in the dining room too .

Now onto the bathrooms ! We should have at least the main one finished by Christmas , which isn't something I was confident saying up until now .

By the way , we've been over here in Sydney ( and Bathurst ) for the last week . Over the weekend we had 7 or 8 people each night , which has been fun , especially as the only working bathroom is the ensuite off the Master .

And without getting too sidetracked , today we decided to do the touristy thing , partially for us and Rosies 7 year old son , but also to say Thanks to Rosies Mum , we've done the ferry ( nice early start just after 7am ) , walked around the Opera House and up the stairs and then part of the Gardens , over the other way to The Rocks , all around the middle of town as far as the Town Hall , stood at the base of the Harbour Bridge , done the Big Bus tour , all sorts ! We've done every floor of Myers haha , eaten gelatoes , had late lunch . And my personal highlight was going to the Crown Hotel and Casino and that whole precinct . I understand there has been some controversy about it being built there , and who built it , but boy , from a visual and engineering point of view , isn't it stunning ? 75 floors or so , and its like a huge twisted glass corkscrew !

If you are an Australian , and don't know much about that building , or haven't seen it , its worth looking at pics of it on-line IMO .

We are back here in Sydney this week , and basically all the big work has been done , and looking pretty good , if I do say so myself . But looking back up this post -- did I actually say a few weeks and $50k ? I honestly didn't think I was that stupid / optimistic haha .

So 7 months , WELL over $100k , Rosie has done 5 return trips , I've done 4 , Rosies Mum 3 trips but hers have been 3 to 4 weeks at a time !

I must admit I would be extremely reluctant myself , and probably question the sanity of anyone else haha , to try and do almost anything overseas unless you are actually living there all the time .

Well done for perservering. Post pics when all done.

We're back in NZ , and I thought I had some 'after' pics of the bathrooms @Kate , but anyway -- I have lots that show what had been done ( i.e. sort of the 'befores' -- basically when we took over and have had to email people ) , but no real ones of the 'after' . I'll do some next trip .

Having said that , the bathrooms are what I'd term pleasant rather than Wow -- those little finger tiles with nice texture , glass screens and waterfall nozzle things , and vanities that are in the $1000's not the $100's haha -- definitely no complaints , quite upmarket , but not exciting IMO .

The kitchen is the star ( you've seen the half-way through pics above ? ) -- probably better than what you expect in most 2 bedroom apartments haha . When I think about it , the whole place is pretty standard -- every wall has been painted slightly offwhite , every ceiling white , and brand new carpet and tiles .

Almost all the furniture is my cousins , and again its really nice . I have been talked into a trendier lounge suite -- its tan or fawn or something leather , big square arms and the base must be almost double bed sized haha -- its [robably a metre to the back , but I have found that if I lean back , my bum then starts to slide forward -- sort of looks over practicality. But I must admit it does look good and suits the place more than the 20 year old beige one my cousin had .

Surprisingly ( not ! ) we haven't rehung my cousins aboriginal art pieces , although ( and I was actually serious ) I did suggest hanging a large one that has lots of mustard yellow and that ochre red in 'our' bedroom , and buy a cover and pillow cases in plain versions of those tones , but like a lot of my best suggestions , that seemed to get ignored haha .

What about the Zoo!

You mean my room haha , or my farm back here ?

Taranga is a couple of kms along , but last time I went there 15 years ago I didn't think it was great .

The one to the north ( Sydney Zoo ? ) I thought was better because you can touch the Koalas and feed the wallabies those pellets . Next ''family' trip with Zack we must do one or the other .

Taronga Zoo was in our area and is stunning with views to boot, try and catch a ferry for a great approach., not familiar with your Zoo though

Walk the Harbour bridge

We've done the Harbour Bridge Walk -- amazing views ! And got the photos , and the history is cool .

You could visit Middle Head before or after the Zoo and even catch the Zoo Ferry across to the City and take the bridge or tunnel back across to the unit

https://www.sydney.com/destinations/sydney/sydney-north/mosman/attractions/middle-head-gubbuh-gubbuh

This next two months we have so much on here in NZ that we've pushed our Aus business launch to 1 May , but the intention is we will be based at this apartment for about 3 weeks in May , then we'll see . So far we have already done a lot of touristy things , done the ferries several times , the trains , etc . We've bought a car too -- no idea what will happen to that if my cousin/aunty start pushing to sell the unit , but at this stage I've paid all these bills , except the kitchen ( my cousin had already paid that ) and I've also transferred them 'a loan' , so it seems likely we'll all have this unit for at least 18 months , and then we'll review things , as a family , if that makes sense .

So basically we'll be honorary Orstralians soon cobber . . . . . . . .

We don't all come from the bush, they won't understand you in Sydney with your SSIP accent. What about the Blue Mountains, not quite NZ or you could travel down and stay at https://www.ooralba.com/luxury-accommodation-kangaroo-valley/, it was Hong Kong owned and developed, think it might still be for sale?

I don't want to get too sidetracked , but not only have I been out to the Blue Mountains ( and Bathurst ) , I've been down the coast to Batemans etc , and up to Newcastle and Hunter Valley and Tamworth and Brisbane ( not recently ) . I've probably been to Sydney 50 plus times in 40 years , Melbourne 20 or 30 , Brisbane similar , I've driven the Stewart Highway twice , one of those trips I went up from Melbourne and Adelaide , obviously to Darwin , then back via Cairns and the east coast -- 8000kms in 8 days !

Almost an Aussie

Awww -- that hurt ! Hahaha .