Hi there Tash, big decisions to be made, I do think your kitchen could be updated and improved with a WIP for extra storage. Keep the toilet in the same spot but run it parallel to the wall so that when the door is open you only see the hand basin. , this would mean taking a bit of space from the bedroom. The "storage" room can this be used for another purpose, anyway think about it, I will come back with other thoughts later

Another question , you mention that the external walls can't be changed, but would you be allowed to move the double doors across to the wall, this would allow better space in the kitchen with better storage, The corner pantry is very old and won't be able to give you the storage you need. The island could also be re worked to give more/better storage usage . The upstairs nook a reading/library space with storage. You may even get lucky and get one of my badly drawn layout suggestions

Thanks for your comments siriuskey. I'd love a drawn layout suggestion As hard as I've tried, I can't fit a WIP in the kitchen, it takes too much from the dining area. We can only just fit a table and six chairs with space to move around them. Going further into the living room makes it too small for a lounge. The double doors were put in that position so that the flow of traffic would go easily between the dining table and the island bench.

I'll definitely look at changing the direction of the toilet, as you suggest.

thanks again!

Thanks oklouise, some great ideas to discuss with hubby this evening.

I didn't say before, the house isn't going to a true two storey. We are replacing the roof and making a cape cod style roof. The ceilings upstairs along long edges of the house aren't full height, and the windows up there are dormers. Except in the bathroom. We are planning to add some cupboards along the walls in the lounge room where the ceiling would be too low.

The storage area may later be turned into a craft/sewing room if it's not full of stored stuff :) I thought about an ensuite in there, but we don't need three bathrooms.

attached suggestion for upstairs bathroom and linen cupboard...bathroom has been enlarged with shower under the sloped ceiling and twin basins for growing kids and the alcove closed off to create walk in storage and better wall space for the lounge

Hi Tash You have been given some great ideas a couple more suggestions for you., I will number them so it will make it easier to understand where I'am trying to go as my sketches are very rough.

1. Perhaps consider moving the door/doors to the deck across towards the left to give better consideration to both the kitchen and my suggestion for laundry/Pantry

2) The laundry has a lot of wasted space with two door ways this could be better used by running the laundry and a long narrow Pantry parallel to each other with a pocket door sliding back on the laundry side and keeping a window in this space

3) The Kitchen is quite small but you don't want it to take over the family living area Suggest the cooktop on deck wall a different corner pantry which is 600 deep installed on the deck wall running back towards the sink area this pantry has a door that opens on the left hand side ( I could get you a diagram of one), very simple lines like other pantry. Placing the large fridge at the end of the sink bench top (this will help cover any mess left on the sink when looking back from the family area)

4) The Island can be long either way or square to give best fit. Perhaps consider that with two pantries you could just have a long table and chairs in the kitchen this would certainly give more space

5) Remove the door to the deck from Bed 3 to give more storage or desk

6. Outdoor kitchen/BBQ on the deck next to the kitchen, the cook top and sink can be swaped over to suit. Placing the small fridge in the Laundry Pantry would allow you to extend the linen cupboard to the edge of the stairs.

7) I have turned the toilet sideways into the 3 rd Bed W'robe space which still leaves a smaller robe but possible extra storage in that room by removing the door to the deck. The "powder room" would have a window above the small vanity.

Finally The new pantry in the Laundry area would be ceiling height and approx 40cm deep this allows easy access, you can add doors or not to these cupboards my sketch is for suggested ideas only cheers

Re upstairs, having a look later today but think Bed 4 and Storage could make a wonderful master suite, or room for a nursery haha. I would keep the upstairs lounge room, you will need this extra space as the family grows cheers,

Ha ha! A nursery? Thanks, but no thanks

Thanks for all your suggestions. I'll sit down with the paper plans and a pencil today.

I like oklouise's walkin storage upstairs, but there's a window- a large one. And it needs to stay for the certifier's EER thingy.

Lots to think about

like siriusky's sideways toilet

Reading Nook up stairs some ideas with storage and big window

Suggested Pantry as per my sketch from Bunnings/Kaboodle. with no deep shelves

http://www.kaboodle.com.au/products/detail/1000mm-blind-corner-pantry-cabinet

Re toilet, thanks oklouise, I think that really works, I have a bit of a hang up with having to have bathroom/toilet with external windows but remembering my brothers house their toilet wasn't on an external wall and was great

. So that the toilet becomes a powder room and not just a Dunnie, recessing the cistern into the wall with sound proofing between the bedroom and closing over the cistern with a wall panel that is screwed into place to allow any possible needed access.

A a small vanity cabinet to the corner with enough space for a handbag to sit next to the basin. this cabinet also stores toilet rolls etc, finish this off with a mirror and a recessed down light.

oklouise I wold love you to draw my suggested Laundry & pantry, I like you started with a Pantry and fridge in the corner of the kitchen opposite the doors, as you can see by my sketch!! where there's a straight line in that corner, but knowing that A WIP was really wanted I decided do the parallel idea which would eliminate one of the two laundry doors, wasted space.I actually really like this idea, outside the normal and gives a WIP feel with good access to another sink, could we fit the DW in there as well. I know that the external walls can't be moved but that doesn't include internal walls. The Pantry 40cm deep and ceiling height (any deeper and you lose things to the back of the cupboard) as previously mentioned & Laundry with wall cupboards could have a narrow window above them, also thinking brooms etc in this area

I'am thinking that an island bench plus a table and chairs to sit 6 - 8 is a bit crowded and Tash's boys are now of the age to sit down to meals with the family, different if they were babies, I did suggest that be a possibility!!

Keeping in mind that storage cabinets don't have to be 60cm deep it is possible to find additional storage in other places.

Just a thought do you really need 3 bedrooms downstairs, could bed 2 become dining as part of the living space for now at least. The other crazy thought I had was take part of bed 4 and joint to 5 as master suite making the rest of bed 4 and the storage a Dorm style bedroom for the boys, a bit like boarding school.

thanks siriusky but i prefer the two laundry door as it works like a mudroom, rush to the toilet access instead of going through the kitchen, but answers usually found in dimensions, the combined laundry pantry is a great idea if there was at least 30cm more depth to include the fridge as well as an opening door and although i love my in wall toilet cisterns at $1500 plus installation they still don't allow enough space to include a vanity and the required cavity door in the available space, i would eliminate the stools and keep the table and custom shallow cabinets are more expensive than standard so i always aim to use standard sizes

thanks oklouise

Hi Tash re the parallel laundry pantry room suggestion, move the small fridge back to where you originally had it under the stair facing back into the kitchen, this would allow the pantry to work. as for shelving/cabinets in the pantry, The laundry sink gives an extra kitchen sink as well.

Why not check out Bunnings range of kitchen/Laundry/bathroon cabinets, you will see that these come in different sizes and depths and usually have adjustable shelves. and are affordable , talk to their staff

I did suggest a small narrow vanity for the powder room, if space is super tight the vanity/hand basin and mirror can be easily recessed into a stud wall creating an alcove. Recessed toilet cisterns come in a range of prices to suite most budgets and certainly gives a more spacious sleek appearance.

Looking forward to what you do and really hoping that you consider opening up Bed 2 as part of your living space which I think with a family of six you really need. Perhaps even consider moving the stairs across onto the living room wall if the ceiling height upstairs would allow, this would really give you a great open space which would allow you to have both kitchen island and table cheers. The upstairs lounge could be left as is or closed of to make another room. cheers

Why don't you put the toilet in Bedroom 2's Wardrobe, and give Bedroom 2 a wardrobe in Bedroom 1's current wardrobe? This means Bedroom 1 will have a wardrobe where the toilet is on the plan.

Hi Tash some photo's of lovely Dorm Bedrooms for you cheers

Serismit, you're a genius!

Thank you. I knew I'd been looking at these plans too long! Now you've pointed it out, it's obvious :)

great idea but, sadly, unless the wardrobe between beds 1 and 2 is at least 90cm deep or either bedroom can afford to lose enough width to make up the difference there won't be enough space for a toilet in the wardrobe although moving the wall and the door into bed 1 over 30cms could create enough space as long as this doesn't compromise furniture placement too much...measure the size and create a temporary "wall" with something about 30cm deep and at least 150cm long (stacked chairs?) and live with it for a few days to see how it feels and/ or consider upstairs lounge for master and beds 1 and 2 for kids and playroom in bed 3

Just make sure that you sound proof the toilet in this position as it stands a good chance of becoming a "Thunder Box" haha,

I find it helpful to draw in furniture so you can understand flow of the room.

You have had a big response to this question, some good, some not so good. Go over each suggestion once more and pick up the common threads and work with them as they are the strongest points. If this home is slab on ground then changing plumbing is difficult and expensive. If on a timber floor above the ground then changes to plumbing are easier and less expensive. If so I would consider moving the laundry wall out in line with the bathroom to create more room in that central area allowing you to create a powder room/ toilet with a new laundry and perhaps a pantry for your kitchen. I hope the view you gain by removing the toilet from where it is, is worth the effort and expense, remembering that you have to live with the result for however much time and could you invest in your home more wisely?

co-design ,External walls were unable to change as they are all ready approved so that's limited things a bit, certainly agree with trying not to move toilet and other plumbing if can be avoided, cost saving cheers.

I'm not here to argue, but an approved plan can be resubmitted as a variation for approval. The blind acceptance of an approval limits your creativity, and the clients ability to obtain the best possible solution. This problem requires thinking outside the box which is what we have offered. The client must decide if the process and cost of approval of a variation is worthwhile. They shouldn't live there wondering if only we had done this or done that due to a blind acceptance that once approved there can be no variations. Realistically everything that has been suggested should result in the need to seek an approval especially when changes to plumbing are considered. Erase what you are not happy with and redesign that space without the shackles of poor space planning. You don't have to like my suggestion but don't limit yourself either.

no suggestion of an argument it was in the brief and because they are short on time and money they wanted to keep within the existing plan right or wrong. personally I would like to have seen that whole wall pushed out for much needed space. looking forward to seeing what Tash does, cheers

Your interior layout is wasteful of space. Internal bathrooms are never ideal as they have no natural ventilation and expensive to plumb and to ventilate to reg's. Your "deck" takes up far too much space within the roofline, your upstairs roof evidently extends over that deck so there should be no problems to push the walls out and utilise all that expensive space used for a deck at present. This will give you a proper kitchen with WIP and dine area, also space to have a bigger bedroom, bathroom and laundry space. You can build a deck out with patio roof later at less cost, than trying to hassle with all the problems you have now. Readers can only go so far, it may well be in yr best interests to get an architect, or a architectural draughts person, or failing that an arch. student! Good luck