You need to speak to the builder, and have the DW installed on the RH side with the sink in the middle so that you can work at both the sink and DW, as it is the power point above the sink is illegal, sorry.

I didn't know the power point cannot be staying next to the sink, but i felt it is not correct as the water can splash into it often when cleaning dishes

I am all right to have the DW in the LH side and the sink in the middle. I check the door frame and it shouldnot be an issue to open the DW .

So that the flow between kitchen and pantry works, ie; you don't want a dishwasher door opened across in front of the access between both spaces. You would be better off moving the DW to the LH side with the sink in the middle, ie: swapping the now DW space with the LH cabinet, you will need a new bench top. This should have been picked up before installation to avoid such bad design. Speak to your builder to see if you can do a deal as you also have had issues with bathroom tiling. The following for your info re sinks and power points cheers

For containers that hold less than 45L, zone 2 is defined as 0.4m above the top of the container, and 0.15m from the edges of the water container. For those that hold more than 45L, it's 1.0m above and 0.5 metres from any given side.

@Dr. House

thank you for your feedback

the flash back is a subway tile which they have it yet installed.

The order of the elevation of the butlers sink is L-R sink , DW, pullout bin is what you see now

initially I requested them L-R DW , sink, pulled out bin

@siriuskey

i didn't know it is illegal to have a switch board next to a DW and no one inform us during colour selection :(

thank you for your information regarding the sink and power point

I think that because the sink and DW washer are in such a small space it wouldn't be too difficult to change and worth the extra cost, as it is you wouldn't be able to stand in front of the sink if the DW was open, not a good design.

This is a conga line of bad...the designer/architect who drew the plan, the council that approved the plan, the electrician who ran the wiring (did he even look at the plan), the cabinet maker & the installer who placed the cabinets, the bench top installer who cut the expensive stone top & installed the sink with so little clearance on the left hand side, not to mention blithely continued knowing there was a power point in a position that doesn’t comply with electrical safety standards. Then there’s the builder, who is 100% responsible for overseeing all of these (highly skilled??) tradespeople. Not one of them had the foresight to stop & say “this is not going to work”

It‘s not your fault and you should not pay for the poor decision making & lack of due care by the many parties involved.

how2girl - so true, but sadly with many project home builders nobody is actually paid to think, they are just paid to build what is on the plans. Questions about good design just slow the process down, and delay the next progress payment.

Everybody just works under the pump and assumes that someone has thought it through, and the customer has signed it off. The customer also assumes that the people that they deal with in the pre-contract phase know what they are talking about, but most have no design training or skills.

Many of these tradesmen who work on these types of jobs are not paid much as they have a large amount of guaranteed work if they don't rock the boat. Unfortunately good design doesn't count for much, whereas the speed of securing the next progress payment counts for a lot.

I left that industry nine years ago when I realized that I preferred to help clients, rather than help building companies with their customers.

Dr Retro

BUILD Architecture Award 2018 · More Info

sorry to see this has happened - but yet another (typical) example of why volume building is not a great option.....cheaper perhaps, but high risk as you are dealing with the lower end of what is not a great industry at the best of times & as Dr Retro implied, this part of the industry is more about money than actually caring about what people end up with when the whirlwind of (bad) trades have come and gone....

Stick to your guns and push for what you want - & remember as soon as you hand over that last payment don't expect to get anything more.........

Dishwasher left, sink in the middle - No. Brainer.

PD

Paul, I think you meant sink on the Right on the left is blocking the access to and from the WIP when it's open, we don't want more bad design.

It's not an ideal design either way - the dishwasher would be actually better in the island with the main larger sink....but sink centralised so there is practical space either side of it...issue is here clearly it's been built as per the drawings.....

Dreamer, whilst we're taking at educated guess re the volume build there are many clues ...looking at the context, the finishes, the materials, the various floor plan/design characteristics that scream off the shelf/volume build, and to top it off Erina indicates "consultant" and "colour selection" which just typifies the way the volume process works - which is a streamlined thing so they can plug in the decisions and the spit out a house without any further thought or slow down...........we recommend a completely different approach, (which builders/trades (generally) hate) where we take time to ensure detail is covered and checked and that the client understands exactly what they are getting - it achieves perfect outcomes for the client, but it takes much longer and time is money in this industry.....you do things via a "quick" process, well, as you say mistakes, misinterpretation and disappointment are inevitable

Dreamer - the project home build process is very much like a sausage factory, and with the larger builders they are very much into production and output to keep costs down, and cash-flowing. They try to discourage changes by customers unless they are within a very narrow set of variables. I like to think that project home builders have "customers", as you are largely buying a pre-determined product. Sadly I have witnessed some "customer service" staff try to intimidate their customers to keeping their houses on the straight and narrow, so that they can get to the next stage faster.

I know of one big project home builder who only has draftspeople (no architects/designers) and these staff are forbidden to have any contact with customers. Any changes are made by a process of chinese whispers through the customer service person, who has no building or design background, which is why their customers have unfortunate experiences like Erina.

Professionals have "clients" where the design process is much more collaborative, and flexible.

Don't go to a project home builder in the hope that there will be much collaboration in the design. Just as you wouldn't walk into a Toyota showroom and hope to have some input into the design of the car. As a Toyota customer you can choose paint colours, interior finishes, and a few limited options (which is usually tied into specification choices), but don't expect to be able to move the glovebox, or adjust the indicator lights!

Dr Retro

of Dr Retro House Calls

BUILD Architecture Award 2018 · More Info

Agree, & the closest you’ll get to a “builder” is the sales person who signs you up. From there you are completely in their hands & they are completely in your wallet.

I’m pleased that you had a good experience, I’m sure they’re not all bad. But in saying that it’s not just project builders.

Dreamer - so glad you had a good result, however I think your home falls more into the "Design/Build" type of business model rather than the traditional project build model that has a standardised catalogue of products, and limited scope to vary.

There are many project builders who do very cost effective products, but it is when their customers want something a little bit different that they often run off the rails. Unfortunately you can't tell when paying your deposit how accessible any of their design talent will be if you do want to make changes.

Dr Retro

the request of the layout i wanted DW, Sink and Pull out bin has always been like that, the consultant of the office said that the DW can not be moved in to middle due to plumbing issue,

I stepped back as they knows better than us and believed her work because she mentioned that she checked with drawing people. however, now when i see this i checked with the supervisor and asked hypnotically is this is something that we could be done eg: having three thing according to what i want and he said if this brought to attention possibly could be done it before, but now it is too late as he got to build what we have agreed to.

so i spoke to consultant and explained how difficult it is to work in this small space, then she said at this point they can not make any changes, if we need it revers she asked whether we like to pay money for this.

What i don't understand is, how can she even ask this question now because if she told me that from the beginning that it is not doable, how can she get it done now if i am happy to pay, if you can't do , you can;t do , how can she if i can make a payment to get it fix ,

this is very disappointing how they are treating their clients . it is not the first time she mucked up so much in my butlers pantry,

she did not agreed to set our cook top in the butlers, and gave all kind of reason saying no vent air access, there is a beam, bla bla bla, but the building supervisor said this could be done, and thanks to him able to do a variation and organise it.

but if we are to listen to that woman we will never get it right. she is very rude, some of the thing i had to go to colour selection office and investigate and get the information from the store manger , because she frankly said this is not available,but yet i fount it is something we can include after making a payment, (stair case design) we are happy to pay for what we like in our home, it is not a problem. But they need to give clear guidance and direction of what is can and can not and be honest. for them it is just a job, not something that making others lives happy

I really feel for you in this situation, but at the end of the day it doesn't work for you as it is, Speak to the builder to see what he can offer to make it good.

If it was me I would even consider cutting the bench top to suit the re arrangement of the : ie From left, Rubbish bin,Sink, Dishwasher. make the cut away from the original sink cutout and include the width of the DW, the off cut could then be placed to the left above the bin. You would need to seal the join.

This isn't perfect and not knowing what material you have used for the bench top but because it's in the pantry it could work and save you the cost of a new bench top.

Your designer has really failed you and before proceeding with any other work I would double check your plans, ie; post on Houzz or consult with another designer, good luck

Erina, from your explanation you have been treated poorly by the sales consultant, when she says what you want isn’t possible but technically it is possible. Before you sign off on any variation can you please write to the General Manager of the building company stating your situation & concerns.

I agree with how2girl, definitely write to or phone the general manager. If it was me I would also include a copy of this post and the replies you have received. It will help you explain your situation, and he/she will be able to see the replies of some pros etc. It also may help your cause financially - if he sees the impression it has given to so many readers it is hardly good advertising! You haven't mentioned the name of the builders but there is nothing from stopping you doing so as a warning to others if you don't receive a satisfactory outcome.

Erina, the issue of DW placement to the left hand side, sink in the middle & you being told it’s not possible due to the plumbing (currently under sink on left hand side)... in technical terms I believe it can be resolved, albeit in a slightly compromised fashion, but achieving your desired result.

If the plumbing comes through the concrete floor/slab up vertically to the sink it could be directed towards the centre/open section via a bend to the right, as low as possible but with the required fall, then up to sink in the centre section.

Can your DW go on the RHS?, so it’s not opening into the accessway? Then the bin drawer can go to the left (power point wall). To accommodate the bin drawer, because it’s going in the area where you have redirected plumbing, they can make the bin pullout with a false bottom to accommodate the pipe. From the outside the drawer will look the same but inside your bin would sit higher up, so the bin would need to be downsized to suit the smaller internal height of the pullout.

You would then end up with, from left to right - bin drawer, sink, DW.

The benchtop would obviously need to be redone.

This is one of the leader builders work in Victoria . They guaranteed the finishing as display even though this layout is not in our display home .

they state to us that they are not going to change anything . It is sad , very sad :(

Should I put a review on the website ? I saw the complaint team responding to them

Have you spoken to the General Manager? I would do that first and give him a chance to make amends. If you don't get a satisfactory response then yes, by all means put a review.

I will surly mention the builders name to you guys

I'm waiting to hear from the consultant about the cost that is going to involve in order to re do this if possible .

just waiting to see if it is something we can bear to see what is the next plan .

"Leading builder in Victoria" doesn't mean much apart from the number of houses they can churn out due to their streamlined production techniques by minimising customer changes, screwing their suppliers and tradesmen, and giving the buyer a cheaper house. Don't equate it to high quality or care, just like McDonald's is the leading restaurant in Victoria based on the number of meals they serve. If you don't change their recipe they can provide a cheaper roof over your head than a smaller operation, or custom build. It also depends on how you measure the quality of a home?

Best of luck with any changes after it has been built (especially as they will want their next progress payment).

Dr Retro

of Dr Retro House Calls

BUILD Architecture Award 2018 · More Info

What is the actual name of the floorplan you chose, Name of Display house?, bad design keeps happening, that door into the Pantry?

dreamer this is posted above

For containers that hold less than 45L, zone 2 is defined as 0.4m above the top of the container, and 0.15m from the edges of the water container. For those that hold more than 45L, it's 1.0m above and 0.5 metres from any given side.

it is a switch

Dreamer like everyone else I would be guessing, but I would think that electrical switch or power point wouldn't be a good idea, why would you do it?

If you're looking to get your money back or have them change the positioning after they have installed, I don't think it will happen unfortunately. That looks like a stone slab which is expensive and if you signed off on the design prior to the install there isn't much that can be done I'm afraid.

@Aus Joinery Kitchens Pty Ltd , Yeah you are correct, They sent me a reply , even though we asked for a quotation , they came back to us saying it is too late now and can not do any changes :(

Unfortunately Erina, your best bet sometimes in this industry is to cut your losses and if it important enough to rectify, outsource a separate contractor/company to come in and re-do it at your own expense.....you just have to look at it as part of the cost of your project.......many people will have stories of deciding pay twice (sometimes more!) to eventually achieve the satisfactory results - ultimately you have to live with it long term and sometimes it's worth it to get it right....ultimately only you can make that decision one way or the other........it's not necessarily right or fair, but unfortunately these are the risks (& hard lessons) of building

Best of luck Erina, PD :)

@ Erina, I'm really sorry to hear about the results. Maybe warn people to carefully read the plans and make sure they get a 3D overview with a person to scale so they can see exactly whats, what. Its hard to visualize with a 2D drawing which is where mistakes can occur.

May I ask what you were asking a quote for?

Best of luck for the rest of your build.

siriuskey

For containers that hold less than 45L, zone 2 is defined as 0.4m above the top of the container, and 0.15m from the edges of the water container. For those that hold more than 45L, it's 1.0m above and 0.5 metres from any given side.

is this is compliance ?

Yes it is

The following for your info re sinks and power points cheers

For containers that hold less than 45L, zone 2 is defined as 0.4m above the top of the container, and 0.15m from the edges of the water container. For those that hold more than 45L, it's 1.0m above and 0.5 meters from any given side.

technika tsf101s undermount sink

this is the sink we are using, i could find any info whether it is containing 45 L or more

ask the question to the seller, what are the Specifications

Here are the measurements...length 454 by width 403 by height 211 = volume, therefore it’s 38.6 litres