What is the basis of your partner's opposition to the sink and dishwasher being in the island? Do they want the stove to be there instead? Or do they want the entire surface to be clear of any appliances?

I wouldn't put the fridge in the larder. That seems like a very inconvenient location, unless you only access the fridge once or twice a day.

Frankly, I can't understand someone not wanting the sink/dishwasher in the island - it's by far the most practical solution. A big empty island in the middle and everything else crammed in round the edges will look wrong.

I am with your husband! I HATE kitchens with the sink on the island. IMO it makes the dishes the focal point of your kitchen, if you have guests sitting at the island, the dishes are right in front of them instead of off to the side. I vote for leaving the fridge where it is, moving the sink where the stove is the the stove next to the fridge. Whatever you choose, don't sacrifice functionality for the right "look". You will regret it as it may appear nicer to look at but in reality, going into the larder to get to the fridge will be frustrating. Not to mention, your larder will have to be perfect all the time incase people pop over and grab something from the fridge!

Another question, what is to the right of the kitchen? Is this your living area? If so, then the back wall, where the stove is now, becomes the feature from that room. As a general rule of thumb, your fridge should be close to an 'entrance' as most people walk in to access that and there will be less intrusion. Most of the prep work in a kitchen gets done between the sink and cooktop. Have you considered, increasing the size of the island and rotating it through 90 degrees? I would then leave the fridge where it is and punch the door way through to the larder next to that. Then position a tall cupboard on the other side. I would replace the sink with an undermount, only in stone benchtops, as this will reduce the visual impact of the sink and add a high end tap as a feature. Leaving the stove and cooking wall as it is, with a run of overhead cupboards and nice clean lines. Good luck!

Hi Renae, Thanks for the larger photo. I would switch the fridge and oven over. You could still enlarge the island which will assist in making the sink and tap look less intrusive. Place the fridge closer to the Dining area, leaving a little more bench space towards the larder area. Above this the open shelves will assist in keeping it from being to much like a passage. Look at an undermount sink and the Abey NuQueen range has a drainage board which fits on top of the sink, again freeing up more bench space. Bearing in mind you can't fit this sink into laminate benchtops.

Great advice thanks Gem'Appelle - I have enlarged the island to 1m width (I hope that will be wide enough( and have at present an undermount sink, we have stone benchtops so the Abbey NuQueen sink should work, I shall check it out.. the idea of placing the fridge closer to the dining also a good idea . Thanks again !

No problems at all. Just with the width of the island. Are you going to have a double run of cupboards underneath? Are you wanting it for eating meals at, or more just perching on stools? The reason I ask is that usually a 300 overhang is most comfortable for eating sitting and eating at. The extra weight in going out by a further 100 might need more support under your island. You could counter this with just an extra void in behind the cupboards to help carry the weight.

hi Renae, my problem with central islands is that everyone walks through the kitchen work area and this is made worse when there is a direct passage to the laundry and garage..i've attached my suggestion which gives much more cabinet area, room for a big fridge and freezer, a stacked wall oven and microwave, island benches on two sides, room for a large central stove with feature canopy..

attached variation: consider making the open shelves in the larder only 150mm (both side walls) and 300-450 deep (end wall) with about 90cm wide floorspace (NB make space to suit what you plan to store - measure all the cans and packet!)

I like the layout with the oven and fridge against the back wall and moving the larder, however having a U shape kitchen then stops the flow from the kitchen to the dining room. With the larder taking some of the laundry space, where will the linen cupboard go? Please post the layout that you end up going with!!

After thinking about the new layout, do you realise that you are also taking room from your games room as well as the laundry? I also think that a u-shape makes storage a little difficult and will make the space appear smaller. Also with the larder, my experience shows that if it doesn't feel 'comfortable' to walk in then you won;t really use the space well. The minimum space between walls really needs to be around 1100. This allows for a 300 deep shelf and 800 walkway. Just some points to be aware of when finalising your design. Hope this helps.

Thanks Gem'Appelle I have shown the alternate layout to my partner and he agrees with you, we have already reduced the games room and will be reluctant to do so again.... I think for the layout of the house Im leaning towards a galley style kitchen. I think at present the larder is only 1000 so I will speak to the builder - thanks for your advice again :-)

Can you put the door to the larder where the fridge is on your original plan? That should give you more options for shelving or cupboards/benches in there. A cavity sliding door would give even more room.

Then put the oven/cooktop/rangehood beside that door - is there enough room for bench space each side?

Put the fridge beside door to games room, and then sink and dishwasher beside it, leaving the island free. You can still have overheads above here and around/over fridge.

Bring the island out a bit wider so you can have cupboards/drawers on each side - full depth on cooking side and half depth on the other. You can afford to take it right to the dotted line at the door way to the games room if you get stools that tuck right under when not in use.

The biggest change I would make is flip the porch and entry way to the other side, and then move everything over. That would give one main hallway instead of two. You could swap the left side work area over to the right, leaving a clear path to garage and laundry. This would give you a L-shaped work area and an island with only one main traffic path.

But that stuffs up access to master bedroom. Complicated. It is a tricky layout. No wonder you are frustrated. Do away with the larder and have some tall cupboards instead? Swap the living area and the kitchen around?

If like me you always have a few dirty or rinsed items around the edge of the sink, avoid placing it in the island.

the biggest danger is the number of intersecting traffic patterns coming through a danger area with constant heat water flames opening doors and cupboards ........I would try swapping the kitchen with the games room and making the kitchen more closed to traffic and safer for cooks as well

Hi it looks like you have been given some good advice from the other people. However, Im just going to throw a curve ball. Do you really want/need the larder, I know a lot of people that have them and unless they are big enough they end up turning into kitchen junk rooms where old pots and pans go to die. as you can tell I'm not a big fan of them, I think they take up valuable living space. if you are unsure here is something a little bit different I came up with for your floor plan. (I'm assuming that you are still in the planning stage).

So what I have come up with is removing the doorway to the laundry and putting in a set of bi/fold doors via the garage. this will give you extra counter space to put your sink in the least intrusive place within the kitchen. The Island is doubled in size and again this will give you heaps of working space as well heaps of storage underneath, you will also be able to fit 4 - 5 stool/chairs around it. Also the other advantage of getting rid of the larder is it will open the room up a bit, ATM you walk in the front door and have a big wall in front of you and then you walk around the larder before you see the living/dining rooms and then you see the kitchen. I think that if you are spending a lot of money on your new home you want to see where that money is going. also by removing the larder you can use the extra money that you would have spent on it by upgrading doors or benches.

Also in reality how often do you go to the laundry, and having the laundry opening into the garage you will have plenty of room and not feel crammed into a little room off the kitchen. Anyway I was just putting a different option out there. I'm sure whatever you end up doing will be what suits your family the best. regards Lynne

I am not sure about the idea that your kitchen needs to look like it is in a display home at all times with nothing to indicate that you use it regularly. I love cooking and still manage to put used dishes straight into the dishwasher and keep the benches relatively clear. Any open plan kitchen layout will have the same issue ie you will still see dishes on the sink no matter where you place it in the kitchen. Stay focussed on the function, walking from one side of the kitchen between the sink and cooktop is not efficient nor safe. Next time you are preparing a meal imagine you are doing it in your new kitchen layout as this will test whether it functions properly for you. Definitely keep your larder/pantry you won't regret it. More than 3-4 stools at the island can be over rated, most people prefer to sit around a table as a family rather than line up at the bench looking at the sink and stove. It sounds like you have always been on the right track, just try not to over think it.

As a side note, have you found the fridge you want & checked the measurements? It's a pet peeve of mine when the fridge sticks out from the bench.

Hi everyone - firstly thank you all for you advice. It really has helped. I tried relocating the larder and switching things around to suit however I ended up coming up with a new design ... switching the games room location and reconfiguring the kitchen ..... This has increased the overall footprint and has added a fair chunk extra.. but I think it will work... My partner loves the access from the garage through the laundry into the kitchen... This I guess is my only concern - that it will be awkward however we will be the only ones using this access - visitors will use the front door... We plan on having a big family so I like the idea of having a games room I can keep an eye on the little ones and another separate theatre area.......

Im undecided about the sink and dishwasher in the butlers pantry - larder.... Im thinking of just putting in overhead shelves, for storage and cupboards underneath... And having taken on your advice about cooking - keeping the sink and dw recess in the kitchen island.....

I think the new layout looks great! It also gives you direct access for the littles to the backyard and closer viewing from the kitchen. The passge through the garage, laundry kitchen won't be an issue, as you described. The dishwasher is probably best in the main kitchen, depending on where you plan to store your daily crockery. Simply for ease of loading.unloading etc. Also when in the main kitchen, you can also be doing that while keeping an eye on your children. The extra sink in the pantry, a personal choice but the space might be better utilised as storage/benchspace. Congratulations, you're getting there!

On a side note, maybe turn the doors from the games room into barn styles doors to add extra architectural interest in the dining/living room?

Thank you very much for such positive feedback !! Gem'Appelle Designs :-) I really appreciate it as I was unsure about this new design I came up with. Yes I have thought about the dining and living room doors... We are having black frame windows etc. so I was thinking of increasing the double door entrance to almost full height .. Although I think barn style doors will probably be a cheaper option.. with less of an entrance space...

The barn doors can still be glass and full height, if you like, but I'm thinking that it might be better to be able to quickly 'hide' the mess when guests arrive. Also they don't take up as much floor space within the games room, leaving more area for storage of toys, games etc.

Hi Renae,

I found this old thread and I'm intrigued - have you built yet?
And if so, what design did you end up going with?

Would love to see some pictures, it sounds beautiful.